Sooo.....

After reading and commenting in threads with this kind of subject matter it is obvious we can't change things (we knew that anyway).

For me the worse news this year (technology wise that is) was C3 being browser-based, and even worse still being a Sub model - WOW what a let down!!!

C3 has nothing to offer initially - it is C2 in a browser atm.

If I were to subscribe, I would just be paying for an online service that I don't need to build my projects - just the standard HTML5 build we have with C2 will be fine.

As PhoenixNightly said it IS NOT THE PRICE, it's about owning the software. It appears that Scirra have a problem with letting us own something for our outlay. I suspect it is because this model has been built in since the very beginning.

After reading the numerous replies from Ashley and Tom it is clear that C2 is now what it will always be. No more updates (apart from maintenance, for a while anyway). All those things we wanted fixed\added - not going to happen! (to those that will say you are a scrooge - wrong, I would buy C2 again to fund Scirras efforts)

And the deal for C3 is what it is, take it or leave. Paint it however you like - it is not a friendly deal.

Wish you the best Scirra.....

But now I will take my leave

Happy game making everyone.

Lets take Fusion or Gamemaker.

To get all the export ability on all platforms it will cost you $400-$500

But you do have exporters.

And after the five years in your example, you own everything.

In GoDot i'll take a lot more time than what my $400-$500 is worth to me.

I does take a bit to get used to a new product, but only a few months. After a while you will get the hang of it. And again you have the exporters many have been asking for around here for years.

What can you do in 4-5 years? What can Scirra do in 4-5 years?

I can Rent it and throw $500 at it.

But what export options will you have. And you still own nothing. . . . . .

A few points to consider :

1) Subs are hated by the majority (and I am not just talking about the Construct community)

2) Scirra is taking a new and yes risky direction, and regardless of what anybody thinks, they want to try it - it may pay off, it may not.

3) Scirra customer base will obviously change - many of the old customers will not buy it, some of the old customers will buy it, and the future may well rest on new customers supporting it.

4) If you like the deal go for it - after all it is an excellent HTML5 tool.

5) If you don't like the deal it is time to broaden your skill set and learn a new tool. Scripting is not that hard - it is just different. The trade-off is export options and ownership of the product you invest in.

> We can't do that with the online version of C3, since Scirra want to maintain a single version which is fair enough, hence my proposal to allow edit access with the standalone version.

>

This severely complicates support. If someone on a 6 month old version complains about a bug - what do we do? Or, Chrome introduce a breaking change. We have to go back and update every single version. This quickly becomes a maintenance nightmare. We prefer to just have everyone on the latest and greatest version.

No - It simplifies support.

Subscription equals updates, new features and bug fixes - in other words ongoing support. One your sub runs out you get to keep a standalone version. You don't get updates period. If you find a bug then re-subscribe.

You even loose forum support with some subs-models out there. EG members only forums. Knowledge base for everyone

Tom, if this was the nature of your sub model I would pay more for it.

We are listening - I think what a lot of people want is not for us to actually listen (which we are doing) but do something different than we've planned.

Errmmmm, that what threads like this are about - getting Scirra to change their plans - which you will not do, hence you are not listening.

Which threads have been unfairly locked?

The last thread Ashley locked.

No thread needs to be locked unless people are at each others throat. Just because a discussion is going in circles does not justify locking a thread. A thread will run it's course by itself, will eventually die down to a few, and finally die out - there is no need to lock them.

And now Ashley wants to lock this one?

Haven't banned anyone for voicing their opinion if they keep it civil.

lamar?...

I didn't read anything from him that warranted being banned, yes maybe he was hashing up the same points, but that just goes back to my first point in this reply.

Unless of course I may have missed a post or thread where he warranted that action being taken.

• - - - - -

What is clear from these threads, is the majority of people do not like or want SAAS, in fact they would prefer to pay more to avoid it - it is really that simple. The big players like Adobe can take that rout since they have bucket loads of businesses that will support that model, and in the case of their software, and what it used to cost, has made it a much better deal.

Whether Construct - which as stated by many, many times, is mostly a hobbyist tool - can survive going down that rout remains to be seen.

One thing for sure is the sub model your have developed is not expensive, but to many it is not friendly, and has alienated a great number of your current user-base, and I think quite a few are feeling abandoned by Scirra.

Despite Ashley's comment about people trying to create a frenzy - which is a little crazy imo - that's not what people are trying to achieve. They just don't like the course Scirra have taken, and yes they want Scirra to change their plans. That as said before is why threads like this are started.

Guys - you just need to move on - Scirra will not listen - Ashley said as much in the last thread he locked.

C3 is SAAS. To be fair the price is ok, but the lockout model is not - it is obvious C2's twin is not going to be friendly any more.

Other engine developers are well aware of the discontent Scirra has created and wants to maintain - so there may even be incentives with their products.

This thread and others like it will be locked, users who continue to voice their opinion against it will eventually be banned - and neither will be listened to anyway - so just get out there in google land - There are options.

At this rate, I'd advise everyone who is against the Construct 3 model to begin learning a programming language.That's the only way to get a full featured game engine without paying a subscription model or anything for that matter a few would be, Monogame(C#), Cocos2d(c++ or javascript), Phaser(Javascript), Love2d(Lua), SFML(c++ and many other language bindings) or you could make your own game engine by combining a number of different tools to make a custom game engine

If you are all for the Scirra sub Model, you may want to do that also, because if the general consensus around here is anything to go by C3 is already up the creek without a cash-flo.

EIDT: big chunk deleted because I Wish the best for Scirra

One thing is certain about the sub model from threads like this - some like it - a multitude don't.

There really is only two options - subscribe or move on - but they are options. Remember google is your friend.

I just get the feeling that a lot of people here are stingy as hell, and probably wipe their behinds with both sides of the toilet paper to save a cent, because they still want c3, but just not with a subscription model, because god forbid, you have to pay Once a year for a product that you really like to use. Pathetic.

Well we all have our opinions -

----

Nobody here is stupid, they know exactly what C3 as a service means - they just for the most part don't want that.

I for one would even happily pay for C2 again (even though currently I don't use it at all except with the grandkids now and again) , to help feed Scirra to keep developing that product.

The software as a service thing is becoming more common - but most people hate it.

Currently I have a CC sub, and others - so I don't mind paying for stuff at all.

The worst sub I have is the CC one since if I stop my sub I can't use the software anymore. I even have plugins for Photoshop that cost hundreds of dollars - so there is an incentive to keep my CC sub alive.

But I use it daily so it is worth the outlay.

I do photography as a hobby, and have a fairly expensive camera - I don't mind paying out good cash for upgrades and enhancements - but I don't want to keep paying for the camera.

I just doubt that the Contruct user base is ready to take on such a model - and it seams most hate the Software As A Service model.

It is really that simple.

Why not make C3 a one time payment.... with no subscription. Plan to release C4 in exactly one year along with a major new feature, and drop any support for C3 and all further updates for it, only offer downloadable last stable for people who wanna cling to it, once the new C4 version is released.

Make a plan to release major new version release on a yearly basis. Make it clear that no further updates and support to old versions will be available once the next version is released. Only a downloadable last stable will be available for old C3 once C4 is released.

. . . . . . .

Problem solved?

Yes! That is pretty much what I saying with the Devcomponents model for their IDE tools.

I hardly use C2 at all atm - but would happily support C3 with this kind of model.

It is obvious Scirra need to fund the New Team and the Tech behind C3 - and who wouldn't want them to be able to do so.- - if they can eat we can play

Like Scirra Devcomponents release bug fixes and new tools incredibly often. The upside of their sub model is that if they don't have any new features or bug fixes you need when your sub ends, you can still carry on with your projects with the last build available before your sub run out. But all other support stops. That solves the Lock out issue that most are peeved about, and provides ongoing funds for Scirra.

So new must-have features, and fast turn around on bug fixes = people want to stay subscribed. But is they can't for financial reasons, or just don't need the latest greatest they still have what they paid for up until their sub ran out.

[quote:3k146g2z]Isn't that basically what C2 is now?

No it is not - if you don't keep the C3 sub going you cant use it at all for large projects - so for a substantial game it is effectively useless..

First - Scirra will not listen to any pleas in a thread like this - they don't care, or have any reason to care, if you like the deal or not, regardless of how long you have been associated with them and any flavour of Construct.

Second - as already alluded to in this thread by others is the whole sub model Scirra have created is just nasty, because you have no option but to subscribe unless your game is doable in a limited amount of events\layers whatever. Scirra says you are not locked out of your project if you don't subscribe, but we all know that it is as good as being locked out - and we all know they know it.

Third - You can't compare Construct to Photoshop. PS is professional tool with years of development behind it. In Australia, PS was a $1200 - 1500 program before going to sub model. Now it is affordable for a lot more people including hobbyists.

But would you pay $1200 - $1500 for Construct - no - it is not in the same league - it is a hobbyist tool not a professional one.

PS have a monthly payment plan but it is binding for the first twelve months. - this is much better option for people who are on very low income which most hobbyists are.

The Best SUB

The best sub model I know and use is that of Devcomponents.

It is much dearer than the Scirra model but is way, way, way, more user friendly.

You pay a lump sum up front for twelve months.

At the end of the period if you don't subscribe you get to keep and use all features in the last build you received You still have access to the knowledge base BUT You don't get any more features You don't get anymore bug fixes You don't have access to the forums

Renewing the sub is substantially reduced and can be renewed any time - even years down the track with no loss of savings.

While this model is more expensive - like 2 1\2 times more - it is a lot fairer and has more incentive on both sides of the fence. Because if there are no new features you need then you just don't need to re-sub, but you get to keep what you have payed for.

That said is matters not what I or anyone else thinks - this is the Scirra model, like it or lump it.

So those who are for it - happy for you.

Those who hate it - there are options out there.

Scirra - hope it goes well for you and the new team.

Only but a few want to support a sub for C2 in a browser.

Read the last blog and the real C3 is years away.

And this thing will always only run on chrome, just try open C3 in any other browser and read the notice you get.

I do have a few subs - CC being one.

But I will never pay a sub to be forced to use a browser for dev, and definitely not to be locked to Google. For some reason Scirra thinks it is cool to be tied to 3rd parties that have in the past and will in the future break things....

Really......