Getting musicians involved: What is reasonable?

Dear Constructtwoians,

I started frivolously messing around with Construct 2 almost six months ago out of sheer boredom (and a secret hope I would one day call myself a game-dev of course ). Looking back at what I have learned in these months from reading tutorials, taking suggestions from forum posts, copying capxs and forcing myself to make a prototype a week, I have hope that I might actually be able to publish a game in the semi-near future.

This realisation raises new questions regarding other, non programming/design related, issues.

Making music to accompany the game is an issue that makes me particularly nervous. I have no musical talent or ability whatsoever. Although sitting myself down with a stack of internet literature , lock the door for another six months and studying up on fruity-loops, musagi etc does have a certain appeal to it, but I fear that in the end, it would be too much allegorical hay on my proverbial pitchfork.

I would like to get a musician involved in the project, problem is: I don't know anyone who is able and/or willing to do so. TO THE INTERNET!

But how? Where can I find someone to make the music for my game? And what's more, what is a reasonable type of compensation for a musical artist?

I aim to produce this game low-budget (read: no-budget). I have cut down on my work-hours, washing dishes at a local restaurant, to work on the game which leaves me with little expendable cash. At this stage, it is probably to early to start worrying about the music but the thought of it is distracting me so it would be great to get some suggestions so that it can go on the board.

So my question is: what do I have to offer as a low budget solo dev? Why would anyone get involved?

I'm my experience, find a game dev forum/facebook group, post that you need a musician for your indie game, and ask them personally about their work fees regarding what you need. In places like that you'll find plenty of young talented amateur musicians, who are really willing to make video game music. I'm, sure you'll find someone with talent and a price range that you'll like.

Also, make sure you like the work they do, they always have a webpage/blog with samples of their work that you'll be able to browse, so you know what you're getting into.

And when you do find the right guy for you (lol), you reeeeeally need to be very specific about the work conditions. Including the work process.

May the winds blow in the direction you're going!

I'm using MAGIX music creator. You don't need a lot of knowhow just a bit of a feeling for rhythm. With this program you can make music with samples you can find all over the net, variating from cheap to expansive. It's a bit like the fruitloop, but much cheaper and easier. I think you can already get yourself a copy at MAGIX for around 50U$ including sound packs and some synthesizors and sample creators. Everybody can feel like a musician with this software like what is construct for us gamedevelopers

Thomas,

I can totally understand the apprehension, you are definitely not alone. This is my personal first project with a "real" game development software, stepping up from the likes of rpg maker and 001 engine. Luckily, the time spent with completed projects and games on those engines has given me a little understanding of graphic/musical editing. I'd be more than happy to help you in my free time, with whatever I can. However, I may be a far cry from the level of professional you need

Unfortunately, I'm unable to send you a PM due to reputation limit at the moment, but feel free to drop me a line anytime, and my project page is here :

--https://www.scirra.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=180&t=100433&p=758496#p758496--

Magix, as mentioned by peterbot above, is a great little program (although a bit pricy, depending on options),

and I believe Fruity Loops has a free version that has limitations. Both are pretty easy to use, but for the layman, will take some time as always (Fruity Loops might be quicker to pick up, harder to master). There's also Acid burn free by Sony I believe, and a handful of other nifty proggies out there (on the off chance you decide to try it out)

Once you do arrive at the point in time where you're seriously considering music and might be willing to set a small/reasonable fee, feel free to take a look at my soundcloud and maybe get in touch with me if you like what I have. I'm new to the industry, can write for different situations and styles, and while i'd love to get paid, I'm mainly looking to build my portfolio into something better since I'm not exactly Hans Zimmer. Yet.

Check it out. Thanks.

soundcloud.com/ace-lefer

http://www.jewelbeat.com/

Loads to choose from, so unless you need something very specific (does that apply to music?) you should be able to find something suitable and it's really cheap. There are other similar sites, just browse through the sounds until you find something you like.

As a (still hobby) musician for decades, I'm astonished how many people think, music isn't such a big deal, esp. for a game

I mean, honestly, would anyone say "I have Photoshop, so who needs Michelangelo, van Gogh, and the like"?

Music is an art just like any other art out there! It has rules, just like any other art out there (ever heard of thirds and fourths and fifths, blue notes and intervals, cadences and harmonics, triplets and allegro, let's not forget the very technical and sometimes annoying post production...ok, I'll stop here). It's a mixture of talent and hard work, just like any other art out there.

When you use a program that is able to play looping audio files, how can anyone think he/she is composing music? I can buy me a paint-by-number kit and create it. Does that make me a paint artist?

Instead of a bad diy-soundtrack, that won't help your game building atmosphere, you should definitely find someone who's a bit more advanced. Wherever game developer gather, you will also find musicians. And just like game developer must earn their credits, musicians must too. You will always find talented musicians, who haven't build up enough reputation yet and so are willing to enter such projects to enhance their own portfolio. Raise your voice by posting in forums, or have a closer look at offers in such forums (here on Scirra you will make a find for sure).

For really tough professionals, that offer a real orchestration, a full professional recording studio and the like, don't be surprised to pay a few thousand per track. In general, as a rule of thumb, calculate between 10-50 per hour of work. But that depends on the level of professionality, that you can easily find out by listening to their portfolios.

But again, I'm sure you'll find more than enough really good musicians, who won't charge for it, if they can build up their rep.

tulamide Creating music with programs that play looping audio files is still classified as music although the Mozarts and Beethovens out there might disapprove just as work created with photoshop is considered art although the Rembrandts and van Goghs out there will shout otherwise. In the end it's what you do with your tools what the outcome may be, and yes, these tools are very handy for creating game music by some one who's unable to play any instrument or has to pay royalties for just a simple game he makes for himself.

Music is an art just like any other art out there! It has rules, just like any other art out there (ever heard of thirds and fourths and fifths, blue notes and intervals, cadences and harmonics, triplets and allegro, let's not forget the very technical and sometimes annoying post production...ok, I'll stop here). It's a mixture of talent and hard work, just like any other art out there.

s a fellow hobby-musician-for-decades, I agree with your sentiment. But I also record my own loops (usually on guitar or MicroKorg) and throw them into a similar loop based software to make music along with stock loops that came with it. I see it as another instrument, to a certain degree.

For me, I guess the bottom line is that bad music is probably better than no music (as long as there is a readily available mute button).

If you can show that you have a promising project, I'm sure there will be quite a few musicians willing to help you out, perhaps even for a revenue share. Newgrounds is a great place for this - I found my composer there and he does great stuff!

If you never made music then better find someone that will do it for you. If you have good project you might find someone talented and with skills.

In regards to music made out of loops... meh. Making music means writing each single note for each voice in certain rhythmic patterns.

In regards to music made out of loops... meh. Making music means writing each single note for each voice in certain rhythmic patterns.

have seen the definition of "making music" change at least once before. The possibility of it doing so again is highly likely even if it does amount to putting pre-made blocks of sound in a specific order. It's not really unlike putting together a game in Construct vs actually coding a game.

I remember back in the late 70's/early 80's when synthesizers became really popular. The "real" musicians at the time were all up in arms about the possibility of other people making music without having to learn to play a real instrument. Nowadays, modern produced music is as altered and modified as an airbrushed supermodel on the cover of some magazine.

Don't get me wrong, I think if somebody wrote something using only loops, I would find it hard to call them a musician (I think orchestrator would be more appropriate if anything at all) . But at the same time, I have recognized loops in songs that I have heard on the radio by very famous/popular "artists"...

I'm very sorry if I started a discussion about loop based apps. It wasn't my intention. I rather wanted to point out, that everyone should pay much more attention to music and sound in their games. It just isn't enough to throw together a few loops and call it a soundtrack. Maybe this eaxample makes it clearer what I mean:

Imagine you're looking Star Wars in a cinema of your choice. Feels just right, doesn't it? And now imagine the same but without Williams' score and instead a few loops mixed together. Where's the connection to the film? Where are the unique recognizable themes, when using loops that thousands of other people also use?

Music should be much more than just a quick tailored placeholder, just so that it isn't so quiet. You would wonder how much more success your game had if using explicitly composed music instead of well konwn loops.

That doesn't mean loop based music wouldn't have its charme (I myself love doing remixes), it just isn't the right tool for games, where originality always wins. It isn't composing, it's editing/mixing what's already there. And that doesn't flatter the game. After all the work with high quality graphics, smooth animations and intense game logic a game deserves the same attention for the music!

> In regards to music made out of loops... meh. Making music means writing each single note for each voice in certain rhythmic patterns.

> I have seen the definition of "making music" change at least once before. The possibility of it doing so again is highly likely even if it does amount to putting pre-made blocks of sound in a specific order. It's not really unlike putting together a game in Construct vs actually coding a game.

I remember back in the late 70's/early 80's when synthesizers became really popular. The "real" musicians at the time were all up in arms about the possibility of other people making music without having to learn to play a real instrument. Nowadays, modern produced music is as altered and modified as an airbrushed supermodel on the cover of some magazine.

Don't get me wrong, I think if somebody wrote something using only loops, I would find it hard to call them a musician (I think orchestrator would be more appropriate if anything at all) . But at the same time, I have recognized loops in songs that I have heard on the radio by very famous/popular "artists"...

Yeah, they had looped tapes already on the beatles albums. But they were using them creatively. And synths still needed to be controlled manually. Most mainstream artists back then were making their own sequences. I also don't think orchestrator is appropriate at all Orchestration is super hard! I know that mainstream is using loops taken from popular songs and that sux. We don't move forward at all because of them. Anyway, if loops it what is appropriate to do at particular moment, then let it be so.

thomas0611 hey man! I'm a composer too and my view on music is always extremely serious but...

It heavily depends on your situation whether you should hire a badass composer or just search for some free music via google. Sometimes it can be that simple. Just try to avoid copyrighted stuff.

Agree with sqiddster, NG is one of great places either for searching free music or composers.