Family Picking Problems 99.7 vs 99.8

Here are two caps showing the same code using familys not working in 99.8 but working in 99.7.

Those .caps are far too complicated to isolate any problems. Could you make new .caps from scratch that demonstrate the issue on its own?

Same problem here. I have not problems to link my project but it is too messy. Practically all my game is based on family picking for collisions, lighting, rendering... and now simply does not work. I am going to try to isolate the problem. For now I have started with graphics, because can�t work programming.

Edit: 99.72 has the same problem

The only bug I can find on the issue is this one. Have a look at the comments, it was closed as won't fix. It looks like the family picking behavior has changed slightly between 0.99.7 and 0.99.8, but it has gone from potentially unstable behavior to the correct, stable behavior. So if your application's family picking was broken, it means you were previously relying on functionality that could've crashed, and it's necessary that you fix it. Davo's comment explains what the difference is, and it seems to only affect events with Create Object actions. So if you know the way it now works, you should be able to inspect all your object creating events and check they are set up correctly.

I know it's kind of annoying but the engine has always worked this way - the real bug was that 0.99.7 let you get away with it - but hopefully this is one of the last pre-1.0 pains.

Let me know if anything else has changed with family picking (but I doubt it, since we haven't changed any of that code for some time).

The only bug I can find on the issue is this one. Have a look at the comments, it was closed as won't fix.

Yes, it appears to be the very same bug I posted which people are having trouble with.

I know it's kind of annoying but the engine has always worked this way - the real bug was that 0.99.7 let you get away with it - but hopefully this is one of the last pre-1.0 pains.

Actually I'd still like to "get away with it" as you put it. I can't really see what is gained in basically removing this unintended feature. Also, while it may be true that in some cases there is an easy workaround, in more complicated cases it can be a real pain in the ass and somewhat takes away from the fine experience which working with Construct usually is.

I understand that the devs considered adding it in for good, but due to design didn't do it after all. So maybe it's pointless complaining about it again here, but I felt I had to add to this topic.

Well, this issue is bugging me in a big way, since most of my more accomplished stuff is broken now in post 99.7 versions.

> The only bug I can find on the issue is this one. Have a look at the comments, it was closed as won't fix.

>

Yes, it appears to be the very same bug I posted which people are having trouble with.

> I know it's kind of annoying but the engine has always worked this way - the real bug was that 0.99.7 let you get away with it - but hopefully this is one of the last pre-1.0 pains.

>

Actually I'd still like to "get away with it" as you put it. I can't really see what is gained in basically removing this unintended feature. Also, while it may be true that in some cases there is an easy workaround, in more complicated cases it can be a real pain in the ass and somewhat takes away from the fine experience which working with Construct usually is.

I understand that the devs considered adding it in for good, but due to design didn't do it after all. So maybe it's pointless complaining about it again here, but I felt I had to add to this topic.

Well, this issue is bugging me in a big way, since most of my more accomplished stuff is broken now in post 99.7 versions.

You could always just stick with the older version it works on, until you've completed your game. This issue is precisely why most games/apps don't change their tool sets midway through. Just stick with the old one, finish your game, then upgrade a fresh.

Well, this issue is bugging me in a big way, since most of my more accomplished stuff is broken now in post 99.7 versions.

Such is the way of large projects made with beta builds of Construct. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you can't say you weren't warned, and you can't claim that you weren't aware of the risks. Hopefully you can fix the issue by using a different method.

And it's not the first time a project was in jeopardy because new features or fixes caused game-breaking results for an individual. The goal though is to make things stable and usable for future generations of Construct users. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one*. I too have lost work to the inexorable march of progress. Your sacrifice is not in vain, as v1.0 will be all the better for it.

*Yes, I am a nerd who quotes Star Trek movies with a straight face.

Such is the way of large projects made with beta builds of Construct. I don't mean to sound harsh, but you can't say you weren't warned, and you can't claim that you weren't aware of the risks. Hopefully you can fix the issue by using a different method.

And it's not the first time a project was in jeopardy because new features or fixes caused game-breaking results for an individual. The goal though is to make things stable and usable for future generations of Construct users. The good of the many outweighs the good of the few, or the one*. I too have lost work to the inexorable march of progress. Your sacrifice is not in vain, as v1.0 will be all the better for it.

I'm aware of that. And I don't really have any large projects, just engines and prototype thingies mostly. My concern is more with what I said earlier:

I can't really see what is gained in basically removing this unintended feature.

It was just such a handy thing to use. Now that families don't work anymore with objects created in the same tick, takes away a lot from the work comfort of Construct imo. As Ashley said:

I know it's kind of annoying but the engine has always worked this way - the real bug was that 0.99.7 let you get away with it - but hopefully this is one of the last pre-1.0 pains.

It's all fine sticking to 99.7 for current projects and all. But Construct 1.0 without this feature still makes me kind of sad tbh. Maybe it just feels awkward not being able to do something you are used to, but I don't know. There don't seem to be very good workarounds for certain things. Families are less powerful now.

Correct me if i'm wrong,

you used to be able to create an object then select it by family within the same tick?

I can't put it back - it's fixing a bug. I understand your frustration, but it's not an unintended feature, it's a bug which could result in instability of the engine, hence we corrected it to work like it always has everywhere else in Construct. If I left it in, you might find your project randomly crashing because you're depending on an unreliable part of the engine. It's a fix, your project is now more stable, the side effect is you have to change the events that use an old glitch in the engine.

I can't put it back - it's fixing a bug. I understand your frustration, but it's not an unintended feature, it's a bug which could result in instability of the engine, hence we corrected it to work like it always has everywhere else in Construct. If I left it in, you might find your project randomly crashing because you're depending on an unreliable part of the engine. It's a fix, your project is now more stable, the side effect is you have to change the events that use an old glitch in the engine.

Of course you're absolutely right Ashley. I guess we'll still have to wait for Construct 2 for created objects to actually exist at the same event line. Which I guess this issue is related to.

So it's just a matter of changing my habits really. Which most people hate to do, haha.

[quote:2hnx4dvy]it seems to only affect events with Create Object actions

I have not used any Create Object action. I will try to update the game and post any news that I can find.

Thanks for the help.

I've looking it over and still can't make sense of it. BUT! I've narrowed down one line of code that doesn't work in 99.72+ but works in 99.7.

There is a corner button and three circle button. The circle buttons are supposed to be layed around the corner button as they are when you compile the .cap in 99.7. But when you compile it in 99.8 the circle buttons are clumped together.

So, am I picking families wrong? Or is this a bug?

Changing the first "equal" to "less or equal" seems to work. Maybe the bug is related to value comparisons.

Just a heads up - I talked about this family picking thing in this thread. It was pretty confusing since two family-related things subtly changed in the past couple of builds, but this is the main one I think, causing family expressions in the form Family.Expression to have slightly different results. It should be fixed in the next build, but it reopens an older bug where Family.Count returns 0 or the wrong count.