What payment option would you like to see for Construct 3?

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Casino? money? who knows? but the target is the same!

    [quote:aeb8kkk6]The bottom line is that they don't care about your opinion.

    As far as I am aware I have rarely seen a company beeing this engaged with their customers. There´s a huge difference between caring about someones opinions and accepting these opinions. All I can hear is "Wahh wahh why don´t you cater to my needs?!?!?11"

    And for all the hobbyists (as myself) who cry that it´s too expensive... It´s not. I don´t understand why some people see a subscription model and instantly think it´s too expensive without even thinking how much they actually end up paying. Just put it in perspective and suddenly it isn´t all that expensive anymore... Don´t think about the cost, think about the cost per hour. If you use construct a whopping 24 hours a YEAR, that´s a little over 4$ per hour. That´s not even close to expensive compared to other activities and we´re still talking about using it 1 out of 365 days.

    If you go to the cinema 3 times a year that´s roughly 30€ for ~6 hours, so 5$ per hour. It´s literally more expensive than using your construct subscription 1/365 of the available time. (And I haven´t even factored in popcorn & drink)

    And while going to the cinema is fun, using Construct is fun AND........... constructive. *badumm tsshhh* (I ain´t even sorry for this one )

    [quote:3be3w2h6]The bottom line is that they don't care about your opinion.

    As far as I am aware I have rarely seen a company beeing this engaged with their customers. There´s a huge difference between caring about someones opinions and accepting these opinions.

    True. Scirra does an outstanding job of being involved with their customer base.

    CannedEssence Nice post. A bit long, but very informative and well thought through.

    Well, I said a few posts ago that I was going which I did, and still do not intend to try and change anything here - it is as well pointed out already - pointless.

    But I have been watching the forum here out of interest, and well CannedEssence nailed it in his post.

    WackyToaster - it is not about the price, it doesn't even matter if the sub is cheaper that a can of baked beans, most of those against this sub model are so because they don't get to own anything - it really is that simple.

    Imo the whole setup is just one big nail in C3's coffin - well at least for me.

    The problem Scirra face now is not just the sub model itself, but also the willingness to alienate existing customers.

    So obviously they will sit back and wait to see how the first year turns out, and maybe it will work fine, but if it doesn't and they rethink their strategy don't expect to win back the customers you alienated. They will have moved on by then, and if they chose a tool that has better export options, you may not even be able to give it to them.

    At worst people will feel dumped by Scirra, C3 will be a sour taste in the mouth, and they won't want to return no matter how good the deal is.

    The silent majority may not be in favour of the sub model either - but only time will tell.

    Unfortunately the way C3 was introduced was almost the same as a train hitting you side on at the railway crossing - not pleasant at all. It would have been a much better thing to engage the community before the sub was in concrete, and try to work a plan that was created along with community input. But yeah, I know 'opening a can of worms'.

    Right going away again.......

    Well... I have already moved on.

    I really wanted to get C2.

    What I really like about is that not only does it do games, but I was hoping to create interactive content with it... not just games.

    That's why I was looking for a non-coding platform for html5... and C2 works great!

    I am trying to get away from Adobe CC and finding an alternative to do all my html5 has been a challenge.

    But because of the uncertainty of C2's future and the fact I am not doing subscriptions.

    I have found GDevelop.... works fine for creating games and some interactivity.

    I decided against GMaker because it's not as easy to use.

    I was also able to get Hipanni's Hippo Animator and it does a decent job at interactive content.

    But in the end... I would of preferred C2.

    It's too bad.

    Defending your ideas and reputation isn't the same as caring about users opinions about not wanting the subscription model. Don't confuse the two. Your just defending your ideas. What have you actually done to solve the problem? Nothing so far. We either pay it or we don't. Bottom line. If you really cared, you would change it. Saying you're waiting for the response the silent majority of your user base just strengthens my point. You'll only care if it effects your profits.

    OK, so it's still to be seen if the model we picked will be viable/accepted by our wider customer base.

    You're just reiterating the point I already made. Why respond with a quote just to say the same thing?

    OK, so now we're ignoring logic common sense and the model won't work?

    Can you clarify what your position exactly is?

    You misunderstand. I said no amount of reason or logic will change your minds on this topic. So far, I am completely right. You haven't changed a thing.

    What your actually asking is for us to change the model to your demands - what you're saying you're asking for is to us to listen. We are listening. We're reading everything. We're not changing our model unless there's a dramatic need to do so.

    I'm not saying you are not reading these comments. I'm saying you don't care about those people who don't like your subscription model, because you are not doing anything about it. You are specifically saying that you are not changing your model unless there's a dramatic change. I don't understand why it's so confusing to you. It's very clear to me.

    I'm just baffled how you could come away with this view after both Tom and I have put so much time and energy in to explaining our position and our concerns with the proposed alternatives.

    Defending your position and ideas is caring about you, and it's not the same as caring about those who don't share the same views. You're not even willing to compromise and change the yearly subscription to something more reasonable like a monthly subscription. And before you say it, telling us you are thinking about it isn't the same as actually doing it. Again, I'm making a distinction there. Actions speak louder than words.

    There´s a huge difference between caring about someones opinions and accepting these opinions. All I can hear is "Wahh wahh why don´t you cater to my needs?!?!?11"

    Your entire comment is basically you crying about people complaining about the subscription model. I suppose the irony is lost on you.

    And for all the hobbyists (as myself) who cry that it´s too expensive... It´s not.

    Well, yeah... Good logic there, and no arguments here. I didn't say it was too expensive.

    If you go to the cinema 3 times a year that´s roughly 30€ for ~6 hours, so 5$ per hour. It´s literally more expensive than using your construct subscription 1/365 of the available time. (And I haven´t even factored in popcorn & drink)

    Now you're logic isn't so good. Renting tools so you can work hard to make entertainment, isn't the same thing as paying to consume entertainment. Apples and Oranges. Just because someone is willing to pay to watch a movie, doesn't mean they should be willing to pay for subscription to a HTML5 game engine. I get your point you're trying to reach though, that it's cheap, but you need to come up with some better logic. Especially when a lot of people are saying it's not really the price they are having an issue with. A subscription model takes all the security away from the consumer and gives it to the company. That's the issue. Work with that.

    And while going to the cinema is fun, using Construct is fun AND........... constructive. *badumm tsshhh* (I ain´t even sorry for this one )

    Nice one.

    > The bottom line is that they don't care about your opinion.

    >

    I'm just baffled how you could come away with this view after both Tom and I have put so much time and energy in to explaining our position and our concerns with the proposed alternatives.

    Well quit caring. I wouldn't waste any where near as much time as you do on these boards.

    yours

    Winkr7

    >

    > > The bottom line is that they don't care about your opinion.

    > >

    > I'm just baffled how you could come away with this view after both Tom and I have put so much time and energy in to explaining our position and our concerns with the proposed alternatives.

    >

    Well quit caring. I wouldn't waste any where near as much time as you do on these boards.

    yours

    Winkr7

    You mean they should stop caring enough to argue against changing their subscription model. Again not the same thing as actually caring that people don't want it. If they actually cared about the opinions of those people, they would do something about it. They don't, so they won't. It's not rocket science. Why is this inflated to them not caring about anything? I'm sure they care about other opinions, especially those that align with their own, just not on this topic of changing the subscription model. I'm really just stating the obvious here. Ask yourself these questions:

    Q. Are they going to change their subscription model to make people happy?

    A. They said, "No," not unless they are forced to change it.

    Q. Do they care more about the vocal minority than the silent majority on this topic of subscriptions?

    A. Tom has specifically said they are waiting to see what the silent majority decides about it.

    Q. So do they really care that people on this forum don't want the subscription model?

    A. No.

    Easy Peasy. The fact they care enough to be active on these boards is completely beside the point. I'm glad they care enough to be so active on these forums to support their products. Good product support should be expected.

    If you really cared, you would change it.

    I think you are just trying to force us to do it the way you want it.

    > If you really cared, you would change it.

    >

    I think you are just trying to force us to do it the way you want it.

    Sounds like jedi mind tricks to me !

    "These are not the payment methods your looking for!"

    *franticly waves hand*

    The majority of us silent...

    So, I think I should speak my point of view:

    First, let's agree on one thing - we love the product of Scirra that branded as "Construct". If someone disagrees, I don't know what he is doing here. Moreover, if someone not likes Construct and wants it to be better but not willing to pay - he should reconsider how the world works.

    I think nowadays people sometimes forget what is the meaning of money, or never knew what it is.

    Money is a currency for exchanging production-effort.

    Think about it for a minute...

    So, when I'm saying "Shut up and take my money", I mean that I would like to pay Scirra team for their effort and a good product.

    When I accept to pay further payments, I'm saying that I want the team to continue to improve the product, I'm investing in the future and securing the success and up-to-date-ness of Construct, and I'm securing the future that I will continue to be an HTML5 game developer.

    So, don't act like a child to expect to get things just because you want them.

    You are not special, think about others humans (Ashley, Tom...).

    Be long-sighted, invest in your future.

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    Hello people,

    I have not read the whole thread or everything about this new product yet; I have, though, read Ash and Tom's posts and some of other people have said, and god, you guys have another thread somewhere about this... fascinating! However, excessive time would be needed for me to complete the reading of the whole discussion.

    I just want to point out what attracted me to Construct 2. There are a couple of things:

    The first was my desire to create games. I actually ended up watching a youtube video on many different game creation tools, and Construct 2 really stood out from the crowd.

    The second was the fact I could buy a permanent licence and own a copy. The free version also did very well to drag me in further, and I have fallen in love with it!

    I have extremely limited ability in coding anything, and I'm still yet to finish my first game, but I am very passionate to keep going and protective about my ideas just like everyone else here.

    I just hope I will be able to continue my projects without hindrance or it being too costly.

    Thank you!

    • Luke

    > If you really cared, you would change it.

    >

    I think you are just trying to force us to do it the way you want it.

    I was just making a point that people should stop wasting their time trying to convince you to change your pay model because you won't. But because I said you don't care about their opinions on subscriptions, and you wanted to pretend that you do, you're in this weird spot of encouraging more posts of people trying to change your mind, and also not wanting to hear about this topic anymore. Do you really want to encourage it?

    Sounds like jedi mind tricks to me !

    No tricks. People made it more complicated than it really was.

    The majority of us silent...

    So, I think I should speak my point of view:

    If you are suggesting you're part of the silent majority, I think posting here kinda defeats the purpose of being silent. Or maybe you want to speak on their behalf?

    Everyone seems to want to think the silent majority is on their side. They are silent because they have people that share their views and are already defending them in this forum. Or they are silent because they disagree with what people are saying and don't want to get involved. Has anyone thought that the reason they are silent is because they are not even there at all? How many people bought C2 and don't use it? People do that all the time. Of all the people who purchased C2, I'm willing to bet a lot of them don't even know C3 exists or would even care that is exists. Everyone here seems to live in a bubble. C2 is not nearly as popular as the amount of downloads or the number of accounts suggest. The vast majority of people don't even know an HTML5 game engine exists.

    So, don't act like a child to expect to get things just because you want them.

    You are not special, think about others humans (Ashley, Tom...).

    People will voice their opinions regardless if you like it or not. It doesn't mean the are childish. Discussing the difference in views is all part of the process of communicating. And if you are not here to communicate, what are you doing here at all?

    Be long-sighted, invest in your future.

    Sound advice.

    Locking this thread, we're done here and it's just going round in circles - and like the other threads is starting to go downhill. Any similar posts, I'm going to lock them for the interim until we're a few weeks into the launch when everyone has cooled down a little bit.

    tldr:

    • We're launching subscriptions
    • We've listened to your comments and suggestions (which has give us some thought/ideas for the future)

    I understand some of our decisions aren't what people were hoping for, but we're risk takers - always have been always will be. We're excited to see what the future brings for Construct.

    There have been a few very thoughtful and well thought out posts, thank you everyone for taking the time to write them.

    I'm sure most people would agree at this point our time is better spent improving Construct!

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