Construct 2 - Realistic State after 1 gazilion downloads

Other issue is that events are going in one big loop,

so 100 events may be good for simple game,

but 10.000 events (I guess) could kill even desktop

also bullet behavior that isn't 100% smooth both on mobile/desktop

also saying "use Crosswalk" is not serious at this moment

and +18MB apk size can dramatically decrease number of downloads on Google Play

but yeah... anyway: there is no competition with anything similar to event sheets

The 10000 events per loop is not really a C2 issue. If you code in any language you pretty much always have to make a game loop, and if you code the game such that each and every single iteration of your game loop calculates every single thing possible every time, then you will run into this same problem. You should only include necessary events on every frame, then stagger the rest of the events with a random based on how often they need to run. For example if they need to run a minimum of once per second, you can put a condition of Every X milliseconds, where X is 700+random(200). The things that you really need every loop iteration are control checks, possibly movement if you want it to be as smooth as possible, etc. But most things can be staggered.

The 10000 events per loop is not really a C2 issue. If you code in any language you pretty much always have to make a game loop, and if you code the game such that each and every single iteration of your game loop calculates every single thing possible every time, then you will run into this same problem. You should only include necessary events on every frame, then stagger the rest of the events with a random based on how often they need to run. For example if they need to run a minimum of once per second, you can put a condition of Every X milliseconds, where X is 700+random(200). The things that you really need every loop iteration are control checks, possibly movement if you want it to be as smooth as possible, etc. But most things can be staggered.

Couldn't agree more

Arima Juryiel

ok, agree

anyway when I tried Airscape demo on my 1,5 years old laptop, with 2x core AMD and 8 GB - the game wasn't 100% smooth (and it was not connected with low/high details)

Interesting discussion that has been going on here.

I think it becomes a bit muddled when we talk about exporters. Construct 2 has just one exporter, which is HTML5. Then it has different ways to export that. With third parties providing ways to wrap it to appear native-like (mostly slapping a standalone browser engine on it as far as I understand).

Now new native exporters would require reworking all plugins, behaviors and... stuff.

If I understand correctly that is kind of what tomsstudio is doing at the moment, which seems to have a lot of potential.

At the very least Scirra should provide reliable wrapping solutions. The closest thing would be Node Webkit, but yes, that's obviously not for mobiles.

If my memory doesn't betray me, there was talk about Scirra hiring additional manpower in 2014. This could enable them to work on extending the exporting options or even actual native exporters, while the regular feature progression of C2 didn't need to suffer.

In any case I do believe we have a piece of development software with a great concept, potentially enabling anyone to create the game he wants to create. I say potentially because C2 isn't a toy, it's still serious software which you will have to learn. It's just much less of a hassle to do so.

So yes, I generally agree. It is also my opinion that the current focus of Scirra should be on providing reliable exporting solutions for mobile platforms.

I started making small games with construct 2 one year ago, but only recently i got serious into it, and while i got into some bumps on the performance (web) the community helped with tips and i struggled on.

So far i released 1 game on google play, amazon and on web and i was thinking at how much issues i encountered to publish a semi-polished game.

1) I love how its promoted as an easy solution, but in reality if u don't learn all optimization and workaround tips, you wont be able to release any game, anywhere in a semi polish state. Performance, crashes and audio problems will haunt you to death.

2) The lack of native exporters makes this even worse. Cocoon js is the only alternative at the moment, even tho Ashley sends us to XDK which is months away from a stable compiler, but we get ignored and sent to knock on doors. Its ludei problem, its intel problem, its Scirra problem, go bother them.

Here is even more sad, that after Construct 2 sold very well, Scirra simply didn't bother to make a few c2 exporters, they just send us to third party sites, which most of the time don't care much about C2. Man power you say? Well look at yoyo games, they made their exporters and each costs money and let me tell you, their HTML 5 mobile games have more options and flexibility, and overall better performance.

3) I really hate this HTML 5 trip, i only use this engine because of the even sheet workflow. Why i hate it? Because even after 2 years listening to Ashley about promoting the so called HTML 5 rush, the reality is completely different. Imagine if instead of riding this hipster trip, they would've built on Construct Classic, make it as simple as C2 and but with tons of native exporters. That wouldve simply destroy GM and other competition.

What you can realistically make at the moment:

a) Small html 5 web games, they work ok, but they need a lot optimization on large games. Construct 2 its easy but in reality if you want to make a deeper game, well you need a lot of experience with it. "lets everyone create amazing games." right, lets everyone create simple games with mediocre performance at best. In the end its possible to publish a decent game, but dont expect to make any money out of it, unless u put some ads on it, and that's about it, making a few dollars at best per month. Licenses are very rare for html 5 web games, but not uncommon. There are few networks you can share to, but its very hard, HTML 5 is simply inferior to flash, but a interesting game with attractive graphics can score a deal.

b) use cocoon js and publish small games on android and ios. The performance its ok with optimization, but lots, lots of problems there. The loading times are huge, audio music crashes your phone on sleep, but at least the performance is good. Post on scirra forums for support and watch Ashely sending you to Intel to use a incomplete, alpha sdk.

c) make non games, 3-7 days cash grabs and publish your income reports for the world to see. These html 5 web games that publishers buy(tho now the bubble its over, so its harder to sell them than last year), require VERY SIMPLE gameplay, and a lot of optimization to even work on mobile. Not Scirra fault here, is just this stupid technology. When i hear that Flash will die because of HTML 5 i laugh my ass off. Did u even saw the quality of the flash games? Maybe in 3-5 years we will get to have possibility to create something similar to flash at that performance, but i doubt it. HTML 5 mobile games are worse than those "free to play" mobile cash grabs.

So you can create something, but you are sent to knock on doors, and hope that you experience will help on the way. I am afraid to even make a deeper game with nodeweb kit and see that the performance is horrible on laptops.

I am very disappointed after 2 years, the engine improved in performance, but the ability to actually release a polished game, well its there, somewhere, but to be honest ill thinking on moving away from this engine. Ill create 2-4 more small games, see whats going on the exporter subject, if still goes on this ignorance trip, ill just move to Unity and call it a day.

So what you guys think?

/frustration off

Unfortunately, I feel the same way. The only reason I stuck with C2 over YoYo or Unity was because it was easier to start up with. Now, almost two years later, my hobby now has real business concerns which may lead me to jump ship. I have already bought a GM license and I really like what I see, but, for now I will finish up the game I am working on with C2 and reconsider my options after it has been published.

Which reminds me. I have a HeroEngine license as well.

I understand the complaints, and I feel like I have no right to have claims as I don't have a c2 game on the market at the moment. But I have created three basic game engines, a shoot em-up, an rts and a turn based game. I have tested all three in mobile and the results were not that bad. They all perform 30+fps's. Though admittedly, they are not complete products.

But the point I'm trying to make is, just tell me a good nice popular 2d game on the market, on any platform, that you can't make with c2 and run in an acceptable performance. From all the bird game clones to jetpack clones to infinite jumpers/runners to card games... I understand that sometimes what you have in mind hits a performance related barrier but making a game involves a lot of non-programming work and decisions, some of which can help with the performance issues. No matter what kind of art form you are using, you have limitations with your medium and shape your art accordingly. You can't play drums with guitar, if you try to, you just hit the wood and you may even be able to decorate your drumhits with guitar sound and make something acceptable... but it will take a lot of work.

I think we can all agree on that c2 could be near-perfect if it had native exporting or some kind of non-third party solution for exports. Currently, you have to find other ways to make it work and this may involve design / target platform choices. But before jumping on another train, just be sure all of them have their own set of problems. This is the nature of the programming. There is just no easy way of doing it, even with c2.

I am hopefull Scirra will find a way to satisfy, for the last six months that's all I have seen they have been doing.

Windwalker

making games is serious business - where people invest money and they want profits from it. Which means that game developers try to minimize possible risks. And they don't have time to wait. Now, with 3rd party exporters, risk connected with Construct 2 is quite big. That's why Scirra have almost 1,000,000 downloads but can mention only a few, bigger, really polished games.

I disagree with everything OP has raised and not because I am a fanboy, but because of my own experience.

C2 has worked as advertise. An easy to use tool but hard to master, like most things in life. My first game is a MASSIVE EPIC. It was grand in scope and guess what? It runs great on mobiles thanks to Intel XDK/Crosswalk.

My second game was a crap Flappy Clone (hey its good practice trying new stuff!), runs great on mobiles thanks to CocoonJS.

I am making my third game now, it's an epic Space Sandbox RTS/RPG, aiming for the depth of games like Privateer, Freelancer & Escape Velocity. So far, its perfectly do-able with C2.

C2 is a great engine, but its still limited by your own talent pool. And C2 doesn't need its own native HTML5 -> Android exporter, because the ones available have massive teams behind it pushing through updates and improving it all the time, even if Scirra tried, I do not think they can match the international effort being Crosswalk or Intel XDK. In another few months when they add AdMob and Google Store support, it'll be perfect.

And C2 doesn't need its own native HTML5 -> Android exporter, because the ones available have massive teams behind it pushing through updates and improving it all the time, even if Scirra tried, I do not think they can match the international effort being Crosswalk or Intel XDK. In another few months when they add AdMob and Google Store support, it'll be perfect.

Highly debatable. C2 certainly would profit immensly from having better exporting options for mobile devices. You do have a point and I think Scirra needs to expand (hire people), which I believe they plan to do on a small scale. They probably shouldn't work on their own HTML5 wrapper, but rather provide actual native exporters.

Other development tools are often preferred over Construct 2 solely because they do in fact have native exporters available. Even if they usually come at additional cost. It just makes for a perfectly streamlined development pipeline and you do not have to rely on any other parties anymore.

C2 is a great engine, but its still limited by your own talent pool.

A statement as true as ever, but in this context it almost seems like you are implying that other users are only having problems because they do lack talent.

I disagree with everything OP has raised and not because I am a fanboy, but because of my own experience.

C2 has worked as advertise. An easy to use tool but hard to master, like most things in life. My first game is a MASSIVE EPIC. It was grand in scope and guess what? It runs great on mobiles thanks to Intel XDK/Crosswalk.

I certainly don't agree with everything that was raised in this thread. And I'm glad to hear that your personal experience with C2 has been this positive. My own experience is also far more positive than negative.

That doesn't mean anyone should dismiss concerns raised by others with a different experience. Especially if the main aim is improving Construct 2 by constructive criticism, which I believe this thread is still about. Yes, the tone has been a bit "ranty" here and there, but it is the internet after all.

When I see games like The Next Penelope being made with Construct 2, all I can think of is "How do I get better?!" and certainly not "This game engine is flawed and lacking thats why I can't make awesome games". What one man can do, others can do also. If they can't, indeed it is down to talent. I'm not talented, but C2 has been great in my experience.

Windwalker

making games is serious business - where people invest money and they want profits from it. Which means that game developers try to minimize possible risks. And they don't have time to wait. Now, with 3rd party exporters, risk connected with Construct 2 is quite big. That's why Scirra have almost 1,000,000 downloads but can mention only a few, bigger, really polished games.

To be honest, most games on the App Stores are absolute trash and the bigger really polished games are far and few between, and the majority are from bigger devs.

This is more than indie, because C2 is so simple to use everyone can make games. Just because everyone can write, doesn't make them awesome novelists.

I was going to announce this in a few months...

But i love c2 so much that i thought i would give a heads up to people.

Currently been working on 2 native compilers for android and ios for the past month.

Of course they are in very /very early alpha, but so far so good.

Android a bit easier than ios.

I was originally going to make a construct 2 clone that compiles to native, but in the end i thought it would be far better to just write a direct compiler (and not step on Scirra's shoes)

Again i wasn't going to let anyone know for a while until i had something /stable.

But this is really for the people who are thinking of jumping ship

Would it be like you load a capx, and it export directly? because that would be.. WoW

Anyway, good luck

Nicely said Arima, I agree.

tomsstudio, awesome! Would be cool if you got Scirra to hire you.

—,

That would be awesome

Aphrodite

That's pretty much how it works

tomsstudio Wow, as the others already mentioned, WOW! I've got a vuvuzuela specially used to root for you!

As someone who has tried GM and Unity many years ago, and left because of very poor programming skills, I am not really that qualified to talk much about this. But perhaps Scirra could implement something where some of the updates can be voted by the community?

For example, Scirra could put a small list of new features for the next stable release, and let the community discuss and vote on which they would like to see implemented first. And maybe even a section for larger features that take a longer time, so at least the community knows that it is being addressed. The advantage of this is not only does it get all of us working more closer together, but it could actually help Scirra bring these functions to life earlier. For example, if everyone votes to have a native exporter for mobile, than someone might have also been working on something similar, Scirra and the person could work together for a short while to complete this instead of starting from scratch ( hint hint....tomsstudio's project!)

Of course, only Scirra truly understands the structure and how C2 is put together so some things need to be done and fixed before others can be implemented, but maybe it would be a positive thing to also let the community who are the customers also have a say in what they would like to see.