PSI

<boooooo, I had a longer post, but then I had an internet problem and lost it <img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_sad.gif" alt=":(" title="Sad">, so i'm not going to go over it as much. >

No it's not. I don't know if it's common knowledge or not, but the IDE core was not developed by Scirra. It is some one elses work. And that IDE has limitations. Ashley has mentioned many times do to limitations in this IDE there are features that will never come to C2. If the case was just Ashley enhancing the current IDE with X IDE features, then I'd be on the same board. However let's start with some examples.

* There is no full input support from the current to the IDE. All we have is double click. The rest of the input is entirely handled in C++ IDE runtime which is developed by another orgnization.

* The IDE does not allow the SDK reload. This means any change to the edit time files require the IDE to be started. It's only an inconvience, but it hits the work flow for plugin development.

* IDE cannot support modularity. Ashley has made this statement. I don't understand how the IDE is related to this, but I suspect it has to do with limited GUI issues.

* SDK cannot open/create custom windows. Such as custom animtion time lines(BTW Spriter, UDK, Anarchy, Unity..... all have have an animation timeline).. C2 cannot supprot these due to IDE.

http://blogs.adobe.com/edge/files/2012/ ... mation.png

also all above software support custom bezier curves where the curve data is stored in an Object variable

http://answers.unity3d.com/storage/temp/2605-1.png

I've been wanting scengraph object for 3 years, I have made a request, I have added this opinion many times. However it's never been done. So I can make a scengraph. However to manipulate a scenegraph effectivly you either need edit time gui widgets(C2 does no support) or a window tree.. I prefer a window tree

http://www.pixelcrushers.com/dialogue_s ... rarchy.jpg

* SDK cannot draw widgets to the edit graphics context.

World viewable widgets. That show Spline path, and show AI pathfinding lines, but also show collision bounding box for a navmesh. These widget are all manipulatable in the editor. Not doable in C2 as C2 IDE does not support widget rendering or any mouse interaction with C2 drawn ctx.

http://s252.photobucket.com/user/PaulTo ... s.jpg.html

* No SDK engine access

There is no access the internal engine elements. Such as handling sprite storage, file management....

So there are limits now. As an example I want to use file journaling for auto updates, I made a request, but Ashley he didn't see enough value in this work flow tool. With Ashley not wanting to make it, and not having access to the engine asset management system. There is no way for anyone to make it.

Also with no engine access. There is no way to create custom classes. There is no way to add new classes. I would love to create a class, then put the class on the EvenSheet like a variable. No engine access, no way to address on an SDK side.

In the end. The tools that you haven't used. Would let you make games 100% faster, and 100% better quality. People moan that Unity games are good, quality is high, performance is excellent.... so on etc. The reason that Unity does so well.

Good work flow tools because the IDE allows it

Unity supports scripts that effect the engine and IDE

Unity has integrated IDE Store which let's you download plugins right into a project.

Unity has developers that can make Unity better on every level.

Unity allows developers to overwrite Unity parts that don't work so well.

C2 does not support any where near the the work flow tools of Unity and cannot with the current IDE

C2 SDK has no ability to effect/affect? the IDE

C2 has no integrated store

C2 is straight jacketed ability to improve c2(Ashley can make new windows such as TileMap, no one else can)

and so on.

Sisyphus

C3 is an IDE rewrite. The IDE does see gradual improvements, but there are locked issues. C3 is the IDE rewrite.

This rewrite will likely support OSX and Linux. I'm also pushing for the IDE to be written in JS on NodeJS or HTML5. That way in the future it's possible that C3 could run on a web browser. Or at least have hope to migrate to Web in 10 years.

Aphrodite

I'm not sure how to relay this. As far as I know as soon as an Object is created. The ES following the creation of the object directly refer to the newly created object. You can also use OnCreated Event for an object for doing that pick.

However, you are right on a few occasions I create an object but needed to SOL Pick the object immediately. I'm not sure how to convey this issue, but I'll think about.

PSI

C2 is fantastic. However every time I sit to write a plugin I smash my head against C2 SDK limits. And this is where the cross roads are.

Pure IDE developers only see the IDE and what's there. However C2 lacks many core dev tools and basic features that are often complained about. Not saying any one in this thread is complaining at all. There are so many tools that would reduce your development time by 50% and increase your quality of product by 50%. However what isn't known can't be missed. And that's the situation from pure IDE developers.

However C2 is a fantastic tool, but I do develop Java, C++, Unity... blah and can honestly say that C2 lacks some common IDE game development elements.

However I feel the problem isn't looking at C3. it's that Scirra has been hiring for 3 years and hasn't hired anyone. Scirra should hire 2 more people. Ashley and 1 new person to work on C3, and 1 new person to continuing making Plugins/Behaviors and enhancements. These enhancements would also benefit C3. This is how Unity operates. Team to work on current support, and another team working on Unity 5.

Ashley and everyone else

With the announcement of C3 on the horizon. I thought I would write down a list of mostly development flow suggestions. This is a Google doc editable by anyone. The idea is that anyone who has a suggestion that enhances C3 should be able to write them in a location for everyone to find.. Now I had started this shortly before the announcement and have only worked on the doc here and there. So it's still an early work in progress. Feel free to make corrections or clarifications by leaving a comment.

But everyone feel free add suggestions that mostly target

work flow

architect design

and overall game design improvement

and not suggestions that can be done now, especially if it's a plugin. Also these suggestions should be inspiring so that Ashley and staff know that if he doesn't want to create the feature, to allow C3 be workable enough that others can do the feature themselves.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pNRLro04cVYz6f2MUDT5ycDTKHOASVwDEPAI717ZGe8/edit?usp=sharing

I've also put the link in my sig

I disagree with all of this.

Pins and Containers should be removed and replaced with

Object SceneGraph [ http://archive.gamedev.net/archive/refe ... index.html ]

and

Prefabs [ http://docs.unity3d.com/Manual/Prefabs.html / http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prefabrication ]

I cannot express how majestic scenegraphs are in regards to object relation and prefabs are to the convenience of complex game object duplication.

Televangelist

There was a flood of users that came in when MP plugin was released. However most of them left. Ashley, myself and others have pointed it out. MP frame of thinking is just so different that everyone who has jumped in with no prior experience just sunk.

While I agree that C2 needs more advertisement and that would increase users. I suspect most will just sink and then complain. C2 MP Plugin does an amazing amount of work with only a few negative parts. However Plugins can only carry the complicated load. The part that that C2MP presents to users is in fact simple in comparison to what's happening behind the scenes, and most people still find that hard enough.

As a Unity programmer I can honestly say. It's not worth the effort to convert to. Unity 2D engine in my opinion is sub par to C2. Unity strength lies in it's vastly better work flow features. I may have made the suggestion once, but after getting my hands involved in both engines far more. yeah. C3 Unity, not the way to go.

Somebody

Thanks for the link. I have Playmaker, but I haven't used it at work. Playmaker is a similar Visual Programming, but I find C2 ES better balanced between coding and visual.

Mammoth, your better off just having have the EventSheet system re-created in Unity. C3 to Unity will never happen. Everything needs to be re-done from the ground up. I asked already for a Unity export.

Twinsonian

The lack of growth ability is why I have been overly nudging Scirra staff and other devs that C3 should be on the horizon. As it is C2 really can't meet or offer enough access for better development tools. Everytime I need a plugin because of C2 ES limits I bang my head against the wall. So I agree strongly with this sentiment

"I want to continue supporting Scirra, but if the product remains the same and is unable to really grow up in to a full pledged game creation studio, there are just far better options. Nothing personal -- I truly adore the Scirra guys, but money can be tight and there are a lot of options out there, including free."

And as for easier programming access. I already did this. I wrote a simple behavior that would load js file into the HTML dom and execute it. Works great. However it's pretty early and I suspect I won't ever flesh it out enough.