yeah, i just think it would be a cool idea - this *could* be done if a chain of command of sorts is established (sort of like a hub where files could be easily exchanged, synchronised etc...). This also means other documentation would be available for the devs...

I must say i agree with Lucid a lot, seeing that his insights come from a dev's background, noticing small but very important factors like "that special something" . I must also agree that the game needs to be fun and replayable, since that IS the whole deal, right? To have fun, not frustration. Still, some diehard gamers (myself included) actually love a bit of a challenge and need hardcore, ultraharcore etc. settings in order to enjoy the game at the later stages. However, easy settings are welcome too - game needs to cater to the widest audience imho.

For a game to be cohesive i think that the hierarchy and division of tasks in a dev team is very important - if people force their own styles on the game, the ending result will be a patchwork and not very pretty or pleasant. The same happens when one person makes the (commercial!) game and although he KNOWS he can program, he won't admit he can't make any music. Or graphics. But still he forces it, and then feel insulted when reviews and customers complain about lackluster graphic or lousy, repetitive (at best) music. Or idiotic (or nonexistent) plot. For their money, people desire quality. And we need to provide. Of course, no one should criticize freeware, since it's offered out of free will and is (and should be!) greately appreciated by the community. However, constructive criticism is always welcome (that's why i LOVE this forum)

I think the best way to approach the entire game making strategy is this:

• have a lead developer:

a person with the big picture and some knowledge about every stage of the process (graphics, music, programming, writting, QA etc... This person needs to be a boss of sorts, although taking very seriously into account what specialists have to say

-lead graphic artist

-lead audio producer

-Q&A manager

...etc. so the Ford Conveyor belt System is the way to go, imho. That way everybody does what he/she knows best and while everybody's oppinions are appreciated, it's always assured that the most capable people work at any given area.

I know that the big guys are already doing it this way, but i feel that us here can do the same - unite on one speciall scirra construct project, take roles and make something really great - if we feel like it. I'm sure that would be a great challenge, but imagine the possibilities!!

Of course, this is just one way of looking at it - your turn now, guys

I'm actually quite curious what the lot of you think about this subject, because, in the end, this is the most important thing that imho makes a hit out of a game - it's a trump card in the indy developer's sleeve, by which he can outshadow far bigger competitors... So, what does make one game a good game?

I've been thinking quite a lot about this one, and while every genre by itself is by definition hated by some, and loved by some, i think the mechanics make the biggest impact on the gamer's experience and satisfaction. Keeping it simple, expanding along the learning curve and making it random enough to keep a player interested is obviously a one way to go about things: games like Torchlight have used this strategy to great extent. Enough roguelike to make people replay and replay, and simple enough to attract the general population, Torchlight has made its way into the hearts (and pockets) of many players worldwide. Obviously, hardcore roguelike lovers will argue that this isn't turnbased, very VERY simple and that it's only got 3 characters, but the main idea is to take what is brilliant from one genre and succesfully implement it in another. This is also worth considering.

Implementing new, never-before-seen mechanics, ideas and insights has always been an advantage of an indy developer, and i think we should hold this advantage firmly within our grasp. Still, this has an issue worth addressing: we need to keep it interesting, new and FAMILLIAR. If people see the idea as too abstract, many will be repulsed by it, thinking it has a steep learning curve, or that's impossible to enjoy or see what is actually going on. So we need to think about that too..

Anyway, these are some of my insights and i'd love to see what you guys think makes a great game. I think this discussion will help us all make good games that people will love to p(l)ay.

J

An important anouncement - i may be actually getting something to do, so i'll let you know - in order to do my part in the offered project with my full attention, i will let you know if i'm available for other offers or not in the upcoming days. Thank you for your trust and have fun!

J

That would be very cool I'm much more keen about making music than graphics right now. There are only 2 songs on youtube, but i think i have a couple more on my myspace profile

http://www.myspace.com/juredujmovic?alb ... d=66772261

Also, i have dozen or more tunes of similar quality, but i've been lazy/unmotivated, so i didnt' bother uploading them

i've seen the screens and i have yet to download the game and give it a whirl, since i'm dead tired right now So far i like very much what i'm seeing, and i'd like to help you guys out. You go right ahead and check out and see if i'm good enough for your project and PM me with the specifics about the mood of the tune and other stuff you'd like to hear.

Oh and...zzzzZzz ... gotta...go...sleeep....

still here

thanks for all the kind words guys!

Please don't flame, those that know me from my previous posts, ok? ok? thanks. Now.

Since my last thread was locked, i was unable to post some of the links you guys requested - don't worry - i won't bring up the subject again - this time i'm offering my meager talents to you guys for free, with no strings attached - as i said before - i just want to help this community that i really love.

So here's the pitch. I'm a composer, and while i've got only 2 tunes on youtube i got plenty more on my HD, so this link is just to show what i can do. I'm still not on terms with some stuff, so i'm not a pro, but i can whip up a tune that's quite ok, i guess.

Here's the link:

http://www.youtube.com/user/juredujmovi ... 0Wwqn5LPRI

i'm also an illustrator and a graphic deisgner - you can check out some of my work on the deviant art if you want:

also, it's not top notch, but at least someone may find it useful.

daeliel.deviantart.com

what are the terms? no terms, really. Just ask me what you need and i'll try to help you out. Sorry again for all the eyebrows raised by my unprofessional approach. Thanks for not banning me and i hope i can be of use to some of you guys.

EDIT: forgot to mention that i probably won't be able to answer your posts until 16-17.8., as i'm away from civilisation during that time Thanks for understanding!

PM me, post here or e-mail me.

Maciej

what a great idea! That's exactly what we will do. Because, maybe 400 euros is not much, but in my country it's equal to a month's paycheck, so we're also a bit nervous whether we'll get a return value for the money or not. The clause: you're automatically accepting.. which caused so much stirring will be replaced by ... if we BOTH agree on cooperating, and we accept your project, we will pay up 1/4 of the sum for every one out of four stages of the game. This way we're only partially covered, but on the other hand, i realize this is the risk we're both willing to take, so i guess it's ok (remember - you CAN use 100euro, and i can't use half finished game). Still, i agree, as this community is so suspicious that i think you guys are actually honest about your intentions, and same as us - you don't want to be tricked. Trust me - WE ARE TOO, but we decided to risk it and do business - that's why it's not more than 400 euros, but will be if our first project turns out success - i promise to inform you on our whereabouts, for the sake of trust and honesty.

procrastinator

Of course there will be roayalities.I need to hear your feedback about how much royalities for you guys would be worth working for- no flaming - we want to negotiate.

scidave

exactly our thoughts, scidave. Help us help you help us all

RaymondHooks

Mate. I'm sorry this has caused much distress for you. I'll stop our dialog right here, because i don't think it will take us anywhere. Let me just repeat one last time:

We gave the outlist of the firm as held by the Trade court of Croatia, which holds all the viable data and it is far better evidence then some website anyone can pay to forge or whatever. Using this information people can:

-sue the firm

-ask about it's legal standing in the country

-ask about it's financial status

-contact us personally

-check out if we are who we are

Isn't that good enough ?

"Furthermore, you can't compare this to a newspaper ad because by reading a newspaper ad a person isn't automatically agreeing to anything, so the level of acceptance and responsibility is completely different."

Wrong. All kinds of advertisments, no matter the media (if available to the undefined wide audience) belong to the same definition. Law defines an advertisment as: the invitation to make an offer based on its directives. It's a statement in which the parameters held within need to be accepted by the other party in order to further the legal situation. Every advertisment is actually legally binding to a party that placed it (in this case - us!). If you answered to our ad, and we refused it for no good reason, you would have right to be financialy reimbursed for all the damages resulting.

thanks guys - as i said, we have a rock solid paypal account and will do a paypal transaction if you think this is a preferable way for us to do business.

And another thing, to clear up a missunderstanding:

"When posting an example, you're automatically accepting" - lol, this sentence is turning into a legend

PLEASE. Please, read carefully the entire post before foaming at the mouth

here it goes again...

When posting an example, you're automatically accepting, that in case we accept your offer, you will finish the entire project by the standards made in this post, as well as with our suggestions that may enhance the gameplay, but not change it in a substantial way (ie. our suggestions will not increase the costs by making you add more content).

What does it say? in case we accept your offer? hm? That means you will have to make AN OFFER after posting an example! yey. So what does that mean? A contract? it means that the last step is still IN YOUR hands. No offer from you - no obligations from you.Sorry for the caps, but i had to emphasize. So please guys - chill and read carefully - i don't have a beef with any of you and i like you all very much - when i wanted (and still want) to program as a hobby,many of you were helpful and constructive - i want to give something back to the community, so please don't shoot this down. The offer is still on - people are shy and posting PMs to me, but no one actually dares to post in the thread. Please, post here, so we can break the ice and realize that this is a good offer and a good opportunity for all of us

Thanks and hope to get more submissions soon!

hehe, chill. i haven't killed anyone or did something inexcusable. So again; it's up to you guys - decide what you want to do. I'm already accepting offers via my PM from members of this board, and i will gladly post our progress here if you care to know how things are developing - maybe the actions will speak louder than words? As i said, we never did this kind of business with digital games, and we're free to make an offer in any manner we feel is suitable. This is called a free form agreement, yet another legal form available to the contractors world wide.

Again, i don't need to own newspapers to place an ad in them, do i?

lol, you guys are funny

Krush

I'm perfectly aware that there are special requirements to selling a game on steam and another services like it, but i'm also aware that this forum has a lot of talent and people who want to make games, but want a bit of a quick buck while at it. For us, this is simple - we're new at the computer game business, but have a history with board games. So naturally, we want to use our experience in coordinating the projects we invest in, and we think we can recognize good selling games. We accept the risk of being wrong, and it's ours alone. As for you guys, you will be payed your euros, so no risk if the game doesn't take off.

Also. I SUCK at programming. I'd rather let my money fill in the gaps and we all prosper - what is so wrong about that?