A business offer for all you game makers out here!

thanks guys - as i said, we have a rock solid paypal account and will do a paypal transaction if you think this is a preferable way for us to do business.

And another thing, to clear up a missunderstanding:

"When posting an example, you're automatically accepting" - lol, this sentence is turning into a legend

PLEASE. Please, read carefully the entire post before foaming at the mouth

here it goes again...

When posting an example, you're automatically accepting, that in case we accept your offer, you will finish the entire project by the standards made in this post, as well as with our suggestions that may enhance the gameplay, but not change it in a substantial way (ie. our suggestions will not increase the costs by making you add more content).

What does it say? in case we accept your offer? hm? That means you will have to make AN OFFER after posting an example! yey. So what does that mean? A contract? it means that the last step is still IN YOUR hands. No offer from you - no obligations from you.Sorry for the caps, but i had to emphasize. So please guys - chill and read carefully - i don't have a beef with any of you and i like you all very much - when i wanted (and still want) to program as a hobby,many of you were helpful and constructive - i want to give something back to the community, so please don't shoot this down. The offer is still on - people are shy and posting PMs to me, but no one actually dares to post in the thread. Please, post here, so we can break the ice and realize that this is a good offer and a good opportunity for all of us

Thanks and hope to get more submissions soon!

hehe, chill. i haven't killed anyone or did something inexcusable. So again; it's up to you guys - decide what you want to do. I'm already accepting offers via my PM from members of this board, and i will gladly post our progress here if you care to know how things are developing - maybe the actions will speak louder than words? As i said, we never did this kind of business with digital games, and we're free to make an offer in any manner we feel is suitable. This is called a free form agreement, yet another legal form available to the contractors world wide.

Again, i don't need to own newspapers to place an ad in them, do i?

No hehe, YOU "chill". Everything I said was on point and there is no way around it. Whether you're legit or not, it's clear that you don't understand your error and you made that clear when you posted this:

lol, you guys are funny

Thing is, it's not a joke. And I know you don't understand, but putting "When posting an example, you're automatically accepting" in this manner is bad form. No one knows you, no one knows much about you and you're already asserting that people should trust you on post #1? If you think people who make offers professionally do what you're doing, I've got news for you, they don't. Why? Because its absurd. And let's not bring "oh I didn't kill anybody" rhetoric into it.

Furthermore, you can't compare this to a newspaper ad because by reading a newspaper ad a person isn't automatically agreeing to anything, so the level of acceptance and responsibility is completely different.

Any developer here should ask for more establishment of information and be EXTREMELY suspicious of you before doing anything with you. It's in their best interest, and any proposal with the best interests in mind for those they are proposing to would include substantial legitimizing information... your's did not, it's as simple as that.

Sounds interesting. I think good way to solve some of the trust problems would be to plan the project in the way that both sides are happy with it what they get/give at the time. So, give yourself 3 milestones. Deliver fist and company need to give you 100 euro, second another 100, before submitting final game they need to give you paper contract with details about how much will you get from each sale etc. and it should be good. There's always a chance that you will be cheated but I don't think they are looking for Starcraft 3 or some other AAA title... They want some small games so risk is limited I think. Some more discussion about it and it might work.

Look at what happened to Anthony Flack and his game Platypus on the Blitz Basic forums. The company that published Blitz Basic (forgot the name) liked his game and gave him a small amount to finish it off (add a few more levels, polish it etc). If memory serves that amount was about �1000 (big amount at the time for him seeing as he was skint). He gave them the rights to it and well.... anyone who knows anything about games knows he lost a crapload 'cause it made a packet! And no, he didn't have any royalties. Just be careful what you sign away.

This sounds like an interesting offer to me..although not enough for me to pursue. 400euro would be real nice for a young developer in China though. I don't like the "automatically accepting part" either, whether in part or in the whole context. It comes off bad.

I don't think there is anything wrong with paying someone for making a game for you and you don't have to be a publisher to do it. Heck, I could offer a $1000 usd for someone to make me a game and I am no big time publisher.

The most important thing, as others have said, is to be careful. I like the idea of delivering a portion of the game and getting paid in increments. That way it keeps everybody honest.

Edit: And small royalties are a GREAT idea. If the game is good enough to offer money for in the first place it should be good enough to allow a small percentage as a royalty.

The proposal is actually quite interesting.

Maciej

what a great idea! That's exactly what we will do. Because, maybe 400 euros is not much, but in my country it's equal to a month's paycheck, so we're also a bit nervous whether we'll get a return value for the money or not. The clause: you're automatically accepting.. which caused so much stirring will be replaced by ... if we BOTH agree on cooperating, and we accept your project, we will pay up 1/4 of the sum for every one out of four stages of the game. This way we're only partially covered, but on the other hand, i realize this is the risk we're both willing to take, so i guess it's ok (remember - you CAN use 100euro, and i can't use half finished game). Still, i agree, as this community is so suspicious that i think you guys are actually honest about your intentions, and same as us - you don't want to be tricked. Trust me - WE ARE TOO, but we decided to risk it and do business - that's why it's not more than 400 euros, but will be if our first project turns out success - i promise to inform you on our whereabouts, for the sake of trust and honesty.

procrastinator

Of course there will be roayalities.I need to hear your feedback about how much royalities for you guys would be worth working for- no flaming - we want to negotiate.

scidave

exactly our thoughts, scidave. Help us help you help us all

RaymondHooks

Mate. I'm sorry this has caused much distress for you. I'll stop our dialog right here, because i don't think it will take us anywhere. Let me just repeat one last time:

We gave the outlist of the firm as held by the Trade court of Croatia, which holds all the viable data and it is far better evidence then some website anyone can pay to forge or whatever. Using this information people can:

-sue the firm

-ask about it's legal standing in the country

-ask about it's financial status

-contact us personally

-check out if we are who we are

Isn't that good enough ?

"Furthermore, you can't compare this to a newspaper ad because by reading a newspaper ad a person isn't automatically agreeing to anything, so the level of acceptance and responsibility is completely different."

Wrong. All kinds of advertisments, no matter the media (if available to the undefined wide audience) belong to the same definition. Law defines an advertisment as: the invitation to make an offer based on its directives. It's a statement in which the parameters held within need to be accepted by the other party in order to further the legal situation. Every advertisment is actually legally binding to a party that placed it (in this case - us!). If you answered to our ad, and we refused it for no good reason, you would have right to be financialy reimbursed for all the damages resulting.

Deliver fist

The most important part.

RaymondHooks

Mate. I'm sorry this has caused much distress for you. I'll stop our dialog right here, because i don't think it will take us anywhere.

*shrugs*

Please. It hasn't caused me "much distress". I simply care for the well-being of indie developers because I am one. Your care for them is questionable.

Let me just repeat one last time:

We gave the outlist of the firm as held by the Trade court of Croatia, which holds all the viable data and it is far better evidence then some website anyone can pay to forge or whatever. Using this information people can:

-sue the firm

-ask about it's legal standing in the country

-ask about it's financial status

-contact us personally

-check out if we are who we are

Isn't that good enough ?

You can repeat whatever you want a million times, it changes nothing. Some link to a site in a language that pretty much no one here can understand is absolutely nothing.

I said: "Furthermore, you can't compare this to a newspaper ad because by reading a newspaper ad a person isn't automatically agreeing to anything, so the level of acceptance and responsibility is completely different."

Wrong. All kinds of advertisments, no matter the media (if available to the undefined wide audience) belong to the same definition. Law defines an advertisment as: the invitation to make an offer based on its directives. It's a statement in which the parameters held within need to be accepted by the other party in order to further the legal situation. Every advertisment is actually legally binding to a party that placed it (in this case - us!). If you answered to our ad, and we refused it for no good reason, you would have right to be financialy reimbursed for all the damages resulting.

Not wrong, 100% right actually. I don't need you to define anything for me. I've made a good living in licensing and contracting. FYI, laws are not the same globally, and transference of responsibility and intent are different everywhere. This is a very important part of the equation, and one you clearly don't understand.

Also, you missed the point entirely. Here is what seems to be going over your head... THIS IS NOT A NEWSPAPER!!! LOL! HELLO!!!??? This is a website forum. You have to pay for a newspaper ad which means that they have to get some sort of verification from you (at least in many places in the U.S. anyway). You didn't pay for anything here. If I read a newspaper I've agreed to nothing. If I call you and give you an example by responding, I've agreed to nothing. Only if your ad stipulates that my action means I agree to a term do I actually agree to a term. Problem is, unless you've taken out a big ad you're not going to have enough room to jam some legal jargon into it.

But the biggest point you continue to miss is that your approach was bad form. So whether it was legal or not isn't even the biggest issue, it's that it was unprofessional. You don't understand, it's hilarious that you don't understand, but you don't understand. You can't come into a forum and on the first post talk of automatic acceptance terms and giving up publishing rights, lol! Are you out of your mind?

Like Ashley said, if you're serious sign a contract like REAL professionals would do it. Only scammers would put up the kind of stuff you have here.

You say you've created board games or whatever. Which ones? Name them, with links where they can be bought, the names of the manufacturers and contacts. If what you claim is true, you can easily provide that in split second.

Seriously raymondhooks, we understand you don't like this guy, but just because it wasn't "professional" in your eye doesnt mean he's the devil. He explained what he ment with everything, and he's trying his best to find a solusion that is safe for both parts. Listen to what hes saying, he's not attacking you.

btw: When posting in this thread after this message you automatically agree to buy me a horse which shall be delivered to my adress (sent by pm to the next poster) before 2011-01-01.

Oh no, it's such a clever trap!

RaymondHooks is right you know.Credentials speak louder than words.Especially on the internet.Like i said before i have fallen for such an ad and paid dearly.So show us a website or pics of the boardgames you created etc...

Seriously raymondhooks, we understand you don't like this guy, but just because it wasn't "professional" in your eye doesnt mean he's the devil.

It wouldn't be considered "professional" in anyone's eyes who knows better.

and he's trying his best to find a solusion that is safe for both parts.

No he's not.

Yes he is. Paypal, and one fourth of the money for completing the different steps of the game. How is that not trying to find a safe solusion?

RaymondHooks is right you know.Credentials speak louder than words.Especially on the internet.Like i said before i have fallen for such an ad and paid dearly.So show us a website or pics of the boardgames you created etc...

Exactly, and it's that simple. No one knows who the heck this person is, and his information is thinner than tissue paper.

Anyone who is asking you to give up your publishing rights in this manner is not dealing professionally and is more than likely scamming. Let's be real here, what professional is going to ask you to give up your publishing 1. On an internet message board (lol!), 2. Without signing a contract?

Answer: none.

Yes he is. Paypal, and one fourth of the money for completing the different steps of the game. How is that not trying to find a safe solusion?

You're missing the point. Whatever mentions of money are irrelevant. Look carefully at what he's asking you to do here.