nintendisney

pointless observation:

nintendo is to games, what disney is to movies and animation.

they both have remarkable skill at their disposal, but choose to squander it, in order not to taint their image as something invariably family friendly, and innovate only enough to catch your attention and then crank out the same thing in different dressing ad infinitum, making sure to keep any innovation well within the limits of what will constantly scream out their brandnames, and make them toys fly off the shelves.

they both have a tendency to beat you over the head with their damn mascot over and over forever. mickey and mario. they both are shameless merchandising whores, and they both have technically superior companies that publish through them, and allow them to slap their idiot names across. pixar is to disney, as rareware is to nintendo. pixar and rareware, both blow away their publishing counterparts in both creativity and technical excellence.

dont get me wrong, i do enjoy disney movies, and nintendo games. theres just something uber annoying about both of those companies. like a slimy boss, with a drinking and gambling problem telling a disgruntled ronald mcdonald to smile for all the kiddies so mom and dad come back with more money.

are you kidding me? another princess movie? another mario game? goodness

... another metroid game - YES! :>

When I was growing up I was a total Nintendo fanboy. But now the only Nintendo franchise I'm not sick of yet is Zelda. But I started to get a little queasy with Wind Waker, and felt a little twinge in my stomach with Twilight Princess. If they don't do something truly new with the next game, it'll probably be my last Zelda game.

I swear to god, if there is a fire temple with a fire boss, a water temple with a water boss, ice temple & ice boss, forest temple etc., I will blow chunks. FIND SOME NEW FRIGGIN THEMES. Or better yet... don't have themes for the dungeons. Take a page from Ico or SotC... sure, parts of SotC could be considered "themey," but it was very well disguised.

Anyway, I'm quite tired of the same old game and the same old characters dressed up in fancy new graphics. Mario Galaxy was kind of interesting for a moment, but once the novelty of the gravity gimmick wore off I had to force myself to finish the game because it wasn't really all that interesting and wasn't very different from previous games. It was basically just Mario 64 with better graphics and funky gravity. And now they're putting out Mario Galaxy 2... wtf, why? It just seems like a cash grab to exploit the current generation of fanboys who grew up with the GameCube and haven't gotten totally sick of playing the same games over and over again. Yet.

Grr. </rant>

deadeye,

Currently playing Ocarina of Time for the umpteenth time (Master Quest on the Gamecube bonus Disc), and my feelings mirror yours.

Ocarina was the pinnacle IMO, and each Zelda game has gone downhill since, with Majora's Mask pretty good (and nicely odd), Wind Waker a graphical feast with a lot of gameplay I didn't like, and there was something about the Twilight Princess that just didn't work for me.

I've never been a fanboy of any kind (Love my Xbox 360, rarely use my PS3, that's just how it turned out), but I've always been a big fan of Nintendo.

I've had every console of theirs from the NES onwards, but I drew the line at the Wii.

I borrowed one for a while, and I just find it all too gimmicky and nowhere near as powerful as it should be.

I've always looked forward to the next Zelda game, ahead of most other games, but I'm not bothered if they released a new one or not, based on two points:

:: It will be on the Wii, and as such, will no doubt over-use the gimmicky controllers

:: The chance of a decent, new adventure that contains many difficult puzzles and enemies to defeat are almost zero. The dumbing down of video games to appeal to as large an audience as possible is rampant these days, and I'd say that Nintendo are the biggest culprits here.

So every puzzle will be accompanied by several obvious clues so that 5 year olds can play it, and every boss will take a fraction of the hits to defeat compared to similar games 5 or 6 years ago.

Thank god for Gears of War, Half-Life 2, Mercenaries 2, Just Cause, etc.

Sponge.

NEW ... METROID

I still think that the best Zelda game was 'A link to the past'. Nothink beats its fluentcy. there was no bulsiting around. Just straight forward dungeon to dungeon plus secrets. No usless characters, cutscenes etc. Great game. And now new metroid is comming out... did i said it looks awsome!?

Has anyone seen interview with Miyamato? I did. Appearently in new zelda game link is not going to held a sword. I have actualy finished TP two days ago. Not bad, but as i played previews zelda games, the overall story seams only like a twist. I realy wouldn't mind keep it as it was, becasue it felt like nintendo is overcomplicating things and is not doing it the best they could. Besides that, i found TP quite easy to beat. But the game is addictive. It did took me 40n h to complite it, skipping some major sub quest, but still i would like to play something more difficult. And i was disapinted with the ending. I give it 8/10 in my scale but overall it's still one of the better games on the market comparing to what is being relesed recently on any platform.

I haven't played mario galaxy. I beat all old 2d marios and mario 64. Wasn't much kin on mario sunshine - quite borring. Did one or two lvls on this one. So mario galaxy 2 doesn't bother me at all.

What else can i say? When loads of money is involved the overall quality cap is going lower. But we all know that. Still new metroid looks awsome!

deadeye, I feel your pain brother

What else can i say? When loads of money is involved the overall quality cap is going lower. But we all know that. Still new metroid looks awsome!

New metroid looks like it's closer to what it should be,

but when I see the preview, I don't get the same feeling of being in an alien world thriving with mystery and creativity. Even with the 16 bit graphics, it manages a better job of pulling you in.

and as far as quality caps lowering with loads of money. I think you should play some valve games. also maybe watch a pixar movie or two. Team Fortress 2 long ago reach it's sales peak, and still on a regular basis I get updates that change the gameplay, or add new levels. I didn't like final fantasy x, or x2 as much as others, but both contained changes and expirements in gameplay, a completely different type of story, different themes, new environments and worlds. I also haven't had the pleasure of playing part 12, but I heard it's a return to form, once again, a rehauled graphics and game engine.

and about pixar, I know those are movies, not games, but it's a perfect example of a company getting insane profit, and record breaking sales each time they show their face, and they use those extra resources to up the quality, and their popularity and reputation as motivation to soar to new heights, instead of as a crutch. Wall-E, and Up are of a whole new standard of quality in storytelling, and visual quality. they didn't have to outdo themselves, but they did. They care about making something amazing. [rant]Nintendo doesn't seem to anymore. It's all about gimmicks and selling systems. and about the hardware I know it was designed not to compete with the highpower nextgens, but stand in it's own lower price market. but the wii is completely pathetic. I owned one for a while. MOST of the games look worse than gamecube games. why does it need to be stick figures just because a game isn't about graphics? If it's all about gameplay, then the wii controller should have been for the gamecube. It should have been included with all new gamecubes, and available in an expensive bundle with a new mario game or a new zelda game. The wii isn't powerful enough to justify being a new system. Nintendo's fallen off the wagon, and now with xbox360, and ps3 entering the motion controller game in full force, and destroying even wii's enhanced wiimote. etc etc etc[/rant] didn't have time to finish my rant. something came up, but it wouldve gone on for pages anyway

<img src="http://www.4colorrebellion.com/media/pics/dec/jungle_mario.jpg">

!!!11 I just heard that Shiggy is going with the "open city exploration" genre, (which seems to be popular atm) for his new Mario game.

-Features

-Steal karts from helpless koopas

-Mug, kill, and kart-over countless toads

-Make your way to the top of the mushroom kingdom underworld.

Shigeru notes that this game is "all about the coins", and "Finally, fans can try their luck with the princess, possibly getting more than just a kiss this time." He also mentions that this concept is completely of his own imaginative genius, and nothing like it exists on any other platform.

Finally, he proudly speaks that this will be his first game to receive an M rating.

<img src="http://www.4colorrebellion.com/media/pics/dec/jungle_mario.jpg">

!!!11 I just heard that Shiggy is going with the "open city exploration" genre, (which seems to be popular atm) for his new Mario game.

-Features

-Steal karts from helpless koopas

-Mug, kill, and kart-over countless toads

-Make your way to the top of the mushroom kingdom underworld.

Shigeru notes that this game is "all about the coins", and "Finally, fans can try their luck with the princess, possibly getting more than just a kiss this time." He also mentions that this concept is completely of his own imaginative genius, and nothing like it exists on any other platform.

Finally, he proudly speaks that this will be his first game to receive an M rating.

Funny XD

deadeye, I feel your pain brother

>

>

> What else can i say? When loads of money is involved the overall quality cap is going lower. But we all know that. Still new metroid looks awsome!

>

New metroid looks like it's closer to what it should be,

but when I see the preview, I don't get the same feeling of being in an alien world thriving with mystery and creativity. Even with the 16 bit graphics, it manages a better job of pulling you in.

and as far as quality caps lowering with loads of money. I think you should play some valve games. also maybe watch a pixar movie or two. Team Fortress 2 long ago reach it's sales peak, and still on a regular basis I get updates that change the gameplay, or add new levels. I didn't like final fantasy x, or x2 as much as others, but both contained changes and expirements in gameplay, a completely different type of story, different themes, new environments and worlds. I also haven't had the pleasure of playing part 12, but I heard it's a return to form, once again, a rehauled graphics and game engine.

and about pixar, I know those are movies, not games, but it's a perfect example of a company getting insane profit, and record breaking sales each time they show their face, and they use those extra resources to up the quality, and their popularity and reputation as motivation to soar to new heights, instead of as a crutch. Wall-E, and Up are of a whole new standard of quality in storytelling, and visual quality. they didn't have to outdo themselves, but they did. They care about making something amazing. [rant]Nintendo doesn't seem to anymore. It's all about gimmicks and selling systems. and about the hardware I know it was designed not to compete with the highpower nextgens, but stand in it's own lower price market. but the wii is completely pathetic. I owned one for a while. MOST of the games look worse than gamecube games. why does it need to be stick figures just because a game isn't about graphics? If it's all about gameplay, then the wii controller should have been for the gamecube. It should have been included with all new gamecubes, and available in an expensive bundle with a new mario game or a new zelda game. The wii isn't powerful enough to justify being a new system. Nintendo's fallen off the wagon, and now with xbox360, and ps3 entering the motion controller game in full force, and destroying even wii's enhanced wiimote. etc etc etc[/rant] didn't have time to finish my rant. something came up, but it wouldve gone on for pages anyway

I personly didn't like much of ffX and i can't belived y i've spend 40+ h with FF12 which basicly is a singleplayered mmo. Bollocks. But that's my point of few.

Graphic qualiy cap is rising on the wii with conduit and few other games like grinder and red steel 2. But who mostly buys wii? I'm working at gameshop and i can say the the wii custom are mostly families with young kids, and even more often mothers having babies. Yeah, wii 'n ds. They sitting at home most of the day, and instead taking care of their baby, thay plaing games to kill some time.

Snes besides thair first party titles, had massive 3rd party support from best japaniese companies like squaresoft, enix and konami. Remember that at the time console technology was still quite new to the market and deves didn't have to follow by the book with what they wanted to make. Ueda said once that in the past, when devs got new technology they said 'let's use it'. When it happens now days, devs say 'we must use it'. And that's the main diference.

With metroid i agree that it is loosing it's filling of separation in MP3. However, even if team ninja is puting bigger focus on samus past, i still got filling that i want be dispaoinetd altho i prefere gameplay over cutscenes and story. I think that the masters of filling of separation thise days were team ico with ico and sotc. However thair new game seams like it doesn't have this filling of isolation. we'll wait , we'll see.

Going back to zelda games. When i was young plaing zelda 3 and 4 i felt massive isoplation and lolyness. That's becasue, in poland, in early 90's you couldn't get snes. But because my grandmother lives in germany, i got my snes from there. And i got zelda in german( had SMW in german too XD )! Zelda for GB i had was in german too. So imagine how isolated i felt plaing thise games not knowing much german language. And now days plaing thise games in english, the kind of lost their isolation aspect to me.

I'll cut here... i think i'm loosing the point

yeah, my point wasn't that every ff is a great game

my point is that ff, while staying true to the ff formula

changes around the battle system, experiments with different types of graphics

jumps from serious stories and art in one game, to lighthearted stories and art in the next

and they increase the amount of time they spend on each game

instead of digging deeper and deeper into this hole of sameness that nintendo does

final fantasy isn't even a good example, but yeah, almost anyone old enough to have been a big fan of all things nintendo in the snes days understands the deterioration I'm talking about

btw, that "this is a family system" is exactly what I'm talking about

it's an excuse, not a reason

"these are dumb kids, they'll play anything"

that's their logic

crank out something quick, it doesn't have to look good, there doesn't have to be much to it

just throw a picachu in there, and maybe a mario, make it easy

pixar movies are intelligent, deep, and moving

little big planet is beautiful, creative, and innovative

it makes your imagination soar with it's gorgeous visuals

and then let's you apply those ideas to your own levels

and if it's such a family system, why can't I play 4 player mario?

anyway, little big planet is a perfect example of what I mean, it's better in every way as a platformer, and a family game than mario

so davio either missed the point, or was just trying to be funny

nintendo should be amazing us with some new totally different type of gameplay

some awesome new world

not damn, bang your controller 80 times warioware garbage

stick figure, move your arm every once in a while wii sports

and sameass, hasn't changed much since n64 zelda and mario gameplay

you can be fanboys and defend it till the end,

but quality and creativity is elsewhere, not with nintendo

they've lost their way

anyone I know, kids or not

who own a wii and another system

rarely plays their wii

it just sucks

and so does nintendo, at least right now

it doesn't have to be permanent

and it's just my opinion

super metroid was a new world

super mario was a new world

link to the past was a new world

they had staple from old games yes, but they had minds back then, and they used them to come up with ideas

everything now is just recycled

none of it's new, none of it's exciting

I know the other systems cost more, so not everyone can try them

but if you've played a truly new title, you realize how irrelevant wii and nintendo have become

queick repost

'and if it's such a family system, why can't I play 4 player mario?'

you can : new super mario bross wii.

rest of the answere later

edit: post contiunes

Well, you from the other hand start sounding like sony fanboy

I think nintendo has got it's unique style. And i bet that they direction is to buid on top of what is already good. And i think they gampley aspoects are greatly designed. Obviuesly what i would like to see comming out from nintendo garage, is a complitely new IP, but as well as better level design in zelda games. They become a little bit to simple. by that i mean, and as you pointed out, a little bit generic.

Anyway and after all what's importand is the game itslef. There is loads of crap on all three systems. I haven't played LBP but for me it seams like 10 minutes fun. Seriously. I prefere diferent kind of games. But that's personal taste.

Now Pixar - as fare as i'm convinced, Pixar was created by Disney. i've seen some of their stuff. It's ok. But i realy prefere old disney films. And again that personal matter.

Nintendo is trying to be like Disney, ripping him of his ideas. But you know what? Whatever. Disney haven't created Metroid

As for me, i've got ps2, gamecube, ds lite, and psp. Nothing to play on next gen consoles yet.

[quote:127oecd9]Well, you from the other hand start sounding like sony fanboy

I'm a game fanboy

I play my pc more than I play my ps3, but if we're going to talk about console games, pc doesn't apply. I didn't get a 360 because A: I refuse to pay for xbox live. That's like me buying a Corolla, and then paying Toyota to drive it on highways. and B: because every xbox360 killer app is a First Person Shooter. They are better played with a keyboard and mouse. This is arguably a fact, and not an opinion, because it gives you greater control, and the possibility of faster gameplay. plus my pc puts 360 and ps3 to shame, so why would I play the same games with worse graphics, worse gameplay, and I get charged to play. so that's why I have a ps3, for console style games, and since that's whats out now, what else am I supposed to mention?

anyway, that's off on a tangent, trying to contrast nintendo to another hardware or system developer by talking about purely adult oriented games is meaningless. sony is my only point of reference, but yes, at this point in time, I think ps3 is the best system to have. if that project natal proves to be all it's cracked up to be, than maybe that'll change next year

[quote:127oecd9]Anyway and after all what's importand is the game itslef. There is loads of crap on all three systems. I haven't played LBP but for me it seams like 10 minutes fun. Seriously. I prefere diferent kind of games. But that's personal taste.

10 minutes? that's a silly thing to say if you haven't ever tried it. it's a platform game, like the old mario games, but it allows people to create and upload levels. I can play little big planet every hour of every day for the next few months, and probably never play the same level twice. I work a full time job, but if it weren't for that, I could spend hours on end creating my own levels. the level creator is a huge technical achievement. it's a great game, you should try it if you ever get the chance

[quote:127oecd9]Now Pixar - as fare as i'm convinced, Pixar was created by Disney.

they weren't, disney has nothing to do with their content creation, and it shows. they are not involved other than publishing and distribution. pixar was bought from apple who had bought it from lucasfilm.

As for me, i've got ps2, gamecube, ds lite,

okami for ps2 is awesome if you haven't played it

and oh yeah, I forgot, nintendo made the ds

that's a good example of nintendo, when it's doing it's thing

that's an awesome system. although I haven't had the pleasure of owning one

it's a brilliant little piece of gaming machinery

Got okami. realy cool.

Ds is great. With r4 cards you gaining acces to houndreds of homebrew apps and games. And MP: hounters is realy cool ff4 is great, and few other. On the wii there is an two onlie rpg's comming out. one is monster hounter. the other one i don't remember.

Anyways...

Its all true, and yet we have no one to blame, but ourselves.

Question:

What happens when you add money to a pile of burning crap?

Does its smell better? Do the flames magically disappear?

No. The flames grow higher, attracting even more to the bonfire.

I say no thanks, Ill make my own pile of bullsh!^. All are welcome to come and dance with me by the fire.

I'm glad nintendo exists, they've made many enjoyable games.

Many people don't like them, but I do. The same way many of the xbox/ps3 owners enjoy their games.

Many people don't like them, but I do. The same way many of the xbox/ps3 owners enjoy their games.

I think you're missing the point there mate.

Although what you said is true of fanboys (and unfortunately it's against the law to have them rounded up and pummelled), I think we're talking about people who aren't as insecure as that, and have admired Nintendo over the years for their creativity, without having to pledge allegiance to them just to fit in and have a label for themselves. lol

For me, Nintendo used to be about innovation and gameplay.

The SNES was a great machine, with plenty of good games (also had a Megadrive, so calm down fanboys ), but I think Nintendo peaked at the N64.

Although the Gamecube is a good little machine (my previous post shows I'm playing on one currently), I think it was at this point that the innovation started to ebb, and formulaic game design started to show, closely followed by the gimmicky Wii.

So let's not assume that anyone who knocks the Wii or Nintendo is a fanboy of another system or company, and that they're just taking the opportunity to join in with the Nintendo kicking.

It could be that, like me, they have owned and enjoyed all the Nintendo consoles from the NES up to the Gamecube, and genuinely don't like what the Wii is doing to the gaming industry.

You could liken the Wii to Kylie Minogue.

Very popular because it's found the ideal market position, and you'd like to have a few goes to see it first hand, but you wouldn't want to take it home and see it every day.

Sponge.