CC/C2 discussion

My experiences with Construct Classic weren't very good. I don't get why so many people prefer it over Construct 2? The web is becoming the future platform for everything. Once HTML 5 is accepted as the new web standard, it will probably take over everything - including gaming.

I literally see no limitations that would stop me from creating a complex game. I look at limitations as strengths of creativity. If you can't find a workaround for your limitation, then you're not trying hard/creative enough to be honest.

HTML5 may very well be the future. I bet in the future it will run crazy fast. And in the future some of the simple things that can be so complicated now, wont be so complicated.

So in the future, I'll use HTMl5.

when your things work in spite of the system, instead of because of the system, maybe its better to have a better system.

....apparently I'm feeling poetic today.

While your experience is definitely valuable, I don't 100% put stock in it. Konjak has been developing The Iconoclasts with this, and 6e6e6e has been making Radio The Universe with it. Both of those are full length polished games in the works, I believe they will both finish.

i'm flattered, but neither developers really endorse cc.

konjak has repeatedly expressed his lack of confidence in cc (and his reasons for not yet having transitioned away from it is mysterious to me). i myself am no longer using cc (nor c2) to develop rtu--this has been true for some time now. despite the best efforts of volunteers, cc is now too unstable, too unsupported, and too undocumented a piece of software for serious game production.

i see now that this is a bit of a spent discussion, but it may be worthwhile to submit my own recommendation: c2 over cc.

My 2 cents: I came here from Multimedia Fusion, taking the risk to port an almost decade long ongoing project (you know, learning by doing) to Construct Classic, and I would never switch back. Don�t know if you consider MMF2 a tool for serious game production, but it was these core problems of the authoring tool that would put me in a dead end, and for all the years that stuff like this is out there, including Klik And Play and The Games Factory, you can end up pretty much screwed if you don�t work around all these quirks that you are presented along the way to your finished product, saying that Clickteam has done a rather poor job sorting out these teething troubles. I mean, cannot distribute custom private variables to objects, what the hell?

Then the awful performance of the hardware renderer, don`t know if they sorted this out yet, but seriously couldn�t care less anymore.

Bottom line is that yes, CC may be stopped in it�s tracks, but the developers are not. My impression is that, given the circumstance that you know what you are doing (and you kind of have to if you want to have some classy output with either tool), you can still get there.

I managed to pull of awesome stuff like full featured bumpmapped lighting with lights as much as your GPU can handle, you just have to sit down, take a breath, take a look at your options and then pull it off. Where else, besides some framework like Unity, does this NOT happen?

My experiences with Construct Classic weren't very good. I don't get why so many people prefer it over Construct 2? The web is becoming the future platform for everything. Once HTML 5 is accepted as the new web standard, it will probably take over everything - including gaming.

Back in the 80s, people thought that PCs would make consoles obsolete, too. Platform never really means much in the grand scheme of things. Games do.

Back in the 80s, people thought that PCs would make consoles obsolete, too. Platform never really means much in the grand scheme of things. Games do.

In a way, you are right, but the reason consoles didn't die was cause casuals started caring about games. Before consoles become so dominant in the market, most of the audience that was targeted was gamers. That's why Nintendo has started to target the casual audience with their consoles. Gamers are moving more and more over to the computer, and casuals make up a bigger number than gamers. They are moving mostly cause of Steam. It is such an advantage that I literally have quit buying consoles myself.

My point is that, it is better to be ready for the jump than to redo your work when it happens.

that's why there coding the next gears of war in HTML5

This is an interesting thread. I've been using C2 for a little over a month. I love it. I tried unity, gamemaker, etc.. C2 was the most intuitive and quickest to pick up. I tried CC as well (cause I wanted shaders and lighting) but found it tougher. Mainly because I tried C2 first. ;)

As far as HTML5, WebGL, etc. I'm 34. I remember when people thought flash, AS & java were weak. Within a short time they became quite powerful. (and supported) I'm a graphic / web designer by trade. (primarily mobile) I can Honestly say that sticking with HTML5 is a wise choice. It's getting better everyday and has obviously made an impact to where it threatens Flash. (well actually Apple threatens Flash) WebGL is going to get better I can promise that. The mobile market (as sad as it is) dictates a ton of our technology. Including the gaming counsels, and PC. Steam has a counsel coming out, there's OUYA too. The support for the features CC seems to have over C2 and WebGL is only going to get WAY better. The market is asking for it. It take a little time but I bet the farm that within 6 months.. we'll be seeing everything we want in C2 come to life. Granted there are some limitations atm but it will get better.

If you are considering writing your own game engine. Here is something to consider:

When I wanted to make a game I called on a buddy who programs in C++, since most of the reading I was doing on the subject pointed to C. He told me to learn C++ and when we got into the details about game development, you are honestly looking at about 1 year of solid (non object oriented) programming.. (if starting fresh) before even attempting to write an object oriented program. Javascript can be just as difficult as well. He gave me grief on using a game engine.. (still does) I felt like a cheater at first until I read a post by Tommy Refenes on game development. http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TommyRefenes/

He makes a great point. program with whatever, use what ever can get something on the screen the fastest and make a game. It's really a matter of what you are comfortable with.

I'm excited every day to come to Scirra's site and see what's new, what people are working on, and the problems and solutions that come out of it. It's innovation and growth. :)

that's why there coding the next gears of war in HTML5

I was talking about the web in general. Many games will shift to the web since there are so many platforms on it and easily integrated to.

I use CC because I tend to shy away from limited functionality and so I don't want to start a project in the free version of C2 and find myself short of events. I also am afraid of the idea of starting a project and finding later in development that something I really need cannot be done with the tool, so having Python support in CC means I'll always have an exit if something doesn't work. I also like the fact that it runs faster, and until recently I think you couldn't create exes/installers with C2, which was a real shortcoming.

Once I become well invested in the way CC works, I'll probably switch to the full version of C2. My impression with the tool is that I love how it works, but I've read that copying/pasting sheets from one project to another doesn't work well, which means that you are forced to write everything from scratch every single time (well, if you create a game engine in a .cap or .capx file, you could start production from that one point, but otherwise code reutilization seems pretty poor). That's really the only flaw that really worries me.

From C2 I like that it has better documentation than CC, that some things are far easier to do in it than in CC, and the more possibilities it offers regarding releasing to other platforms.

After reading about the library license issues and other problems that burden CC development, I can understand the developers switching to C2. However the differences between CC and C2 really make them look like different tools for different purposes, rather than an improvement of the first.

Edit: About pixel-perfect collision, maybe is it needed for a Qix-style arcade game, in which you can collide with your own pathline?

Helladen

Nah, I Know, I was just being a smart-ass.

(for the moderators, i mean a donkey, not a butt)

---------------------------------

facecjf

An inspired uplifting post/perspective.

---------------------------

DrJones

that's a very good plan, anybody telling you otherwise is wrong/ just wants your allegiance ( or money )

just don't become too reliant on CC.

as far a pixel perfect collisions in C2, you could map every pixel to a spot in an container array, and check the overlap of each spot. it'd be a nightmare to initially make, but i bet it would work.

(At least it would in CC, I've made a custom build 32 bit ship sprites using a similar process before.)

(Arrays are awesome.)

Speed is still a large concern using C2 if you are making anything with a large computational overhead, i don't see this changing anytime soon with javascript. You need to have used CC extensively to make any fair comparisons/arguments about the capabilities, they aren't something easily seen from the surface.

with regards to Flash and AS, they are still weak. Web development will never replace anything, only undercut more traditional things. Games can't be given the same privileges when they're being run out of a browser, even plugins like unity (which still suffer issues from running out of a browser). You're better off using java if you want to make something serious that will also be multi-platform. A lot of people used construct to make something more than an angry birds/fruit ninja/cut the rope/generic app clone. CC and C2 as things stand are different tools for different Jobs, and although C2 does it's job more effectively than Classic, it does not, and most likely will not be able to do classics job for a long time (if ever, depending the direction scirra takes).

Just wondering... did someone made a test with CC .exe and C2 .exe (node webkit or whatever). I can't run CC anymore to do it myself but i'm curious about results.

Speed is still a large concern using C2 if you are making anything with a large computational overhead, i don't see this changing anytime soon with javascript. You need to have used CC extensively to make any fair comparisons/arguments about the capabilities, they aren't something easily seen from the surface.

I've used CC and C2 extensively and comparing them, C2 can do the vast majority of what CC can. C2 isn't as fast at event execution, but the vast majority of users won't have any problems speed wise or need the features from CC that it won't get.

For those who do want those things, though, I understand your disappointment.

You're better off using java if you want to make something serious that will also be multi-platform. A lot of people used construct to make something more than an angry birds/fruit ninja/cut the rope/generic app clone. CC and C2 as things stand are different tools for different Jobs, and although C2 does it's job more effectively than Classic, it does not, and most likely will not be able to do classics job for a long time (if ever, depending the direction scirra takes).

If you used java, you would miss out on one of the main things that makes construct two so great, its event editor.

C2 is more than capable of making something more than a generic app clone. C2 can do classic's job just fine as long as you do not need the specific features or event speed that it lacks, which again, most people don't.

shinkan - I made some event speed tests earlier in the thread. I messed up on my first attempt though, so look for my second set of tests on page 4. I also tested rendering speed earlier, and c2 wins in that department.

Since we are on the topic of CC/C2.. :-)

There have been some tragic bugs in big games, see this awesome game if you haven't played it before:

scirra.com/forum/phenomenon-32_topic39957_page1.html

I feel terrible for the author because you could be playing for hours and then just have your game hose on you. That being said it is still worth a play through. There have been some great games made with CC and who knows we will probably see a few more great ones to come. Probably wont see many huge games though.

Now I want to dig up all the old games...especially some of the Russian ones (remember Mary Jane). ;-)