NotionGames - Wow that's great work - best of luck! Let us know how things go, I'm more than happy to buy a copy once it's ready to go. I'm sure many other C2'ers will be happy to do the same to support a successful C2'er too.

Just a random thought - I see on greenlight lots of indie game packs. Perhaps one day a few of us could pool a few of our best games and release them on Desura or Greenlight as well.

Ah, I see, thanks <img src="smileys/smiley1.gif" border="0" align="middle" />

Yeah I agree with you both - there are some real scum bags out there, who essentially will try to take advantage of us, which goes beyond these job bidding sites.

One of my friends is a graphic artist who freelances for small business, and even though she goes through traditional channels to get work, occasionally she will get bad clients who do the same thing: e.g. agree to work being done, and then at the end the clients say they don't want it anymore for various reasons.

For that kind of situation, I think it's a must to have a contract signed, with stipulations on debt collection and legal pursuit.

Even then it's not guaranteed. We had a client who we did work for, which was completely successful, but then she turned around a month after the payment due date and abruptly said she was dissatisfied with our work.

Now this was *with* a formalized contract signed. I tried working things out with her, even giving her the benefit of the doubt by offering a discount just to resolve things, but I gradually realised, she was basically out to scam us. At that point I was pretty pissed and decided to take her to court. It's been more than a year now, and after numerous legal proceedings, we still haven't got our final payment. We're getting much closer, but even with legal checkpoints in place people can still get away with murder.

So sorry about the ramble - my point I guess is that we need to put mechanisms in place to protect ourselves in case the above happens. If possible cover yourself off with a contract (might not be applicable internationally).

The other thing I can think of is that with Freelancer.com, I read that you can use payment milestones for partial work which might make things easier also.

I actually had this happen to me tonight. I usually save my capx after every few mins, but this time I forgot and lost about 10-15 mins of changes :( I didn't quite figure out how to restore a backup - how do you do it?

DravenX - I agree with you 100%. The key point is that artists (and other freelancers) have complete free will in the matter.

Similarly, I've been contracting in IT for the last few years, and when the economy is buoyant, I get great rates. When it's the opposite, I have to scrape for lousy jobs and accept mediocre pay. If I berated my employers during the bad times for not paying enough, they'd simply tell me bugger off, and I'd end up with a bad rep.

These sites are essentially an extension of existing markets. Without these sites, people would continue to freelance and bid for work - it's been happening since the beginning of time.

I gladly welcome these sites, as for me it opens up the global market which would otherwise be completely out of my reach.

I believe that people who complain about not getting paid enough on the sites don't have a lot of common sense. It's as absurd as going up to e-bay and telling off everyone for not paying sellers "enough". Demand dictates what the price is - it's a free market.

jchamplain - As amusing as it is to read your futile attempts to get a reaction out of me, you're probably dancing dangerously close to getting yourself banned from the forums (remember the forum rules?).

Now, since you've found it a challenge to follow my instructions in my post above, I've done you a favour: i.e. created a new forum for you:

scirra.com/forum/topic56882_post354459.html

Again, I strongly suggest you refrain from hijacking this post any further. I find you and your discussions quite the source of delightful entertainment, so I'd rather not see you get the boot! :)

Do you believe that it's ethical to use job bidding sites for our game art, or any other assets or services that we might need for that matter?

There are currently several sites that offer job bidding/contracting services such as:

Freelancer.com

Rentacoder.com

elance.com

Even more here: freelanceswitch.com/finding/the-monster-list-of-freelancing-job-sites

I personally don't have a problem with it. It's basically creating an open marketplace for professionals wanting to expand their pool of potential clients. For us specifically, it gives us access and visibility to many talented artists, developers, musicians, etc that just wouldn't be available or affordable normally.

However, some would argue that use of such sites is considered exploitation as desperate professionals try to outbid each other and potentially end up getting paid peanuts.

What are your thoughts?

JCCY - wow your work is simply amazing! I could see how some of it could be used as backgrounds or title art. What are the general guidlines on your pricing? Also is it possible to purchase some of the stuff you've already done for our games?

jchamplain - lol, just pure lol! I'm bookmarking this thread - seriously dude you are pure comedy haha! Love when the personal insults start coming out - that's a sure sign that someone's lost an argument. Anyway dude thanks, I haven't laughed out loud so hard for quite some time :D

Once again PM if you actually have a genuine debate, or if you prefer you can continue to try to dis me there - it will be equally amusing either way :)

odesign, do you have quite specific requirements? If you just need a really simple one, the forum has tutorials for building a really basic MySQL/PHP one, or you could look at a service like clay.io which is pretty prominent on these forums.

GeneratorGames, as with Rory, I'd like to know many more details, and when your website will be ready.

Great stuff bonixmusic! :)

Do you guys do any scary stuff? I'm quite taken with a horror game called Slender which uses really simple, but seriously creepy sounds and music. I'd love to make something similar.