jayderyu's Forum Posts

  • > I wish this classic controller design would just die. it ******

    How is it a classic controller design? No one else would put all 4 font buttons and provide a larger area for the 2nd stick.

    In the overall picture of the controller it's the same controller. In a small bits and bobs there some good and bad stuff. So let's start.

    1. Ergonomics

    The human body is capable, but not designed to hold the current standard controller design for long periods of time. In comparison notice how the mouse is moveable and not attached to the keyboard. We have seen track pads and bound pointer input to keyboards and laptops. but people still buy mice. Why? the input is separate and more in a natural relaxed shape for long use. In fact I'm in a reclining chair with the keyboard on my lap, and the mouse on a small side table. Is it work productive no, but damnd am I comfy :D But the classic controller is not a Keyboard and Mouse. that is very true.

    While companies create well rounded shapes, padding and as comfortable that doesn't change the flaw in the inherent design.

    The reason the controller design hasn't changed is because the design they use now for the button count is efficient. A controller has to have grips, and the thumbs are the main tools we use for controllers (because fingers grip). Buttons are placed at comfortable grip points (shoulder, back), while the front controls are placed based on use and more comfortable position for that common use.

    2. Intuitive

    An intuitive device lends a natural use that requires little instruction. Or is capable of using knowledge of prior devices to be applied to the current device. The PSOne increased mass appeal to game sales, but that was an increase of a smaller demographic range, but the content appealed to a larger market. What happened was that many older or very younger games were not in the same fold. There are always though who pushed through like my daughter, but overall it was less effective.

    The SNES seemed to be the pinnacle of console broadest of range of age. Enough buttons used efficiently.

    Before dual analog, the right area was used for buttons only, and no one has wanted to upset that because it works great. They added a 2nd set of shoulder buttons because they could not comfortably add them elsewhere. Same with pressing the thumbsticks down to get a button as well.

    3. Efficiency

    more does not make efficient. 18 buttons does not mean better.

    The Wiiremote has a far larger range of input, intuitive when smartly used, yet less buttons. More potential game types, less input. That's effecient. Your use of Effecient is incorrect with the context of XBox, PS1/2/3, Steam controller and the entire ilk.

    The Wii-remote and sixense.com/razerhydrapage are miles above the prior controller designs. They are both Intuitive and Efficient. Theya re capable of playing all genre of games, with out requiring 18 buttons.

    I will list a side by side comparison the Wii-remote a common controller and the PS3 Core controller at the end.

    The Steam Controller upsets the standard by making it's "thumbsticks" take up more valuable real estate on the controller front, moved the front buttons to the middle because of their use in modern games, added another button to the back. If this was all it would be rather mediocre, but thankfully you can map the hell out of the track-pads for multiple functions to basically get a regular controller.

    Actually I'm re-evaluating the Steam controller. I think it's going to be apex of the design model. i just know that the design model is old and we need to drop the entire thing. But I will agree with this. It's the best of the of the same bunch.

    Weeeee-Remote+ vs PS3 input comparison and it's potential and effectiveness of games they can and can't do.

    ]---- PS3 Sixaxis

    3 system buttons

    3 Distinct analogue control input

    1(6) velocity(6 direction)

    1 dpad

    4 face buttons

    2 analogue clicks

    2 shoulder buttons

    2 shoulder linear analogue

    2 shoulder click

    * using the dpad or buttons swaps active use of 2 analogue

    20 values of input

    Games it can't or will do poorly

    everything that is based around pointers.

    RTS, Point and Click, Touch based games

    Games of note it can't do in categories

    Elite Beat Agents, Trauma Center, Warcraft, Starcraft, Sam and Max...

    Games that the controller does well

    Fighting games like Street Fighter. FPS are significantly better with Keyboard and mouse. Controller doesn't get credit.

    ]---- Wii-Remote+(I would use Sixence, but it's not as common)

    3 system buttons

    1 POINTER < DING DING DING

    1 XY analogue(left hand, no conflict with the XYZ Analogue)

    2 XYZ analogue(no conflict to use)

    2(12) velocity analogue(6 direction each)

    2 shoulder buttons on left(admit there is no analogue :( )

    1 dpad(right conflict with 1 button)

    2 primary buttons(A conflicts with the dpad)

    2 secondary buttons(conflict with A and dpad)

    --------

    1 speaker

    1 expansion port

    16 values of input

    Games it can do

    All pointer games effectively, FPS only a little worse than Mouse(mouse is king), Trauma centre. Then there is the entire new genre of gaming potential that is being missed. Driving, Flying, 3D space.

    For simple games it can detach the chuck for convenience of simpler games. The wand shape with the pointer lend itself very well for user media interface witch the classic controller design does not. Pointers just work better for media and interface control.

    what the controller is weak at

    Street Fighter with it's 6 button style. nothing else.

    broad taste of immersive gaming

    youtube.com/watch

    game made better by WR+ more tactical and deep

    youtube.com/watch

    one of the best and surprisingly immersion fist fighting games I have ever played. looks simple, but when your playing it's fantastic.

    youtube.com/watch

    Now if Valve based there controller design on the Wii-remote or Sixence. It would be accessible, intuitive, get all the awesome bits that SteamController is coming out with, fix up the wii-remotes weak spots and bingo. APEX of game controllers. But nope. It's mired in poor ergonmic design, over complication of input.

    However I do love the touch based audio haptic pads. I think those by far are some of the best input ever.

    So on a game application comparison Shooters are pretty simple to map. However probably one of the more complicated movement are space flight sims.

    So just doing the space flight controls

    360 and Steambox

    Left Analog XY(Pitch/Yaw)

    Right Analog XY (roll, face)

    sacrifice face buttons for motion input(if needed)

    PS3

    Tilt control(pitch/roll/yaw)

    Left face

    right camera

    sacrifice face buttons for motion input(if needed)

    Wii-remote

    Left Tilt(pitch/roll/yaw)

    Left XY camera

    Right Analogue face

    let alone we still have an analogue pointer to use for accurate shooting

    no sacrifice of buttons for motion input.

    So my professional opinion based on experiences of controller models. Companies are barking up the wrong tree as new consoles come out.

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  • Debug has been very helpful. However some options for debug starting would be great.

    1. option to have debug always come up or stay running when running application.

    2. option to click that debug should always open in seperate window.

    I run a dual monitor setup and would be very helpful on fresh runs that the debug would just start seperate and automatic.

  • Yes there is a MUCH easier way to do this.

    You should check out the tutorial Ghost Shooter. It's exactly what your looking for.

    For what you did. You can do 0 events. I extremly strongly suggest going though the tutorial mentioned.

    Number one tutorial that all new developers should read. it will answer many questions and gve incredible insight on how C2 works. I did what you did trying to muddle my way through the tools, but after reading this tutorial I've managed to figure out most of my problem on my own.

    scirra.com/tutorials/37/beginners-guide-to-construct-2

  • Pode

    thanks for the start. Appreciate. Got up to displaying the bands. I think. There is a sample in one of the web audio api's. I managed to link the mic to Audio using the analyzer effect. Using the sample I now have an effect array of frequency. however i'm not sure how to yank from a large number of frequency samples to determine which not is playing.

    But your insight did give me some ideas to test out.

    LittleStain

    That's a helpful end point once I can determine the frequency currently being played :)

  • Hey all. I could use some assistence.

    I'm looking for a solution or a resource to translate Audio to a musical note. I want to create a typing like game, but instead use an electric violin.

    So more like Rock Smith. The problem is that sound numbers boggle my mind. So I'm looking for an answer or at least some place I can try and put all these numbers in the Audio/UserMedia plugin to use.

    I appreciate the reply in advance.

  • PhoneGap with FastCanvas and the Ouya Plugin is the only option at this time.

  • Eventually. i hear google intends to support JS in there Android browser.... some day.

  • jayderyu

    sorry for interrupting your moments of happiness

    sniffle. I super appreciate it. I think we should bash Ludie for it's slow release.

  • I agree with complains about CJS. syzmek has a point.

    However Ashley has made it clear that as a company they will not tackle a Wrapper or native code exporter.

    So unless C2 get's some free love in the form of someone picking up the torch to develope a C2 IOS/Android Wrapper. Then it's not going to happen. Maybe Scirra will pick up the individual. but it's going to have to be proven first.

    So who is up for tackling the project? considering the effort.

    Personally Ejecta and Pender Android sound like the best solutions to build off of.

  • Well i couldn't reply because I wasn't home. I am now.

    Good news. Now we just wait for 6 months. Hopefully they will also have IAP support. but it will be good enough to get a product out there :)

    szymek

    Besides explaining it a handful of threads. your missing the point. Each time. Yes the Ouya sales are NOT equal the Wii. However that was never the point. So I suggest in a friendly way. If it's not constructive. Don't reply. The ouya is an entry point for an Android console. being at the ground base for whichever platform takes off is the goal.

  • cJS is supposed to support MP4 or the converted M4a converted file. I've heard of some success. But I haven't managed it.

  • Dictionary called KeyMap

    KeyMap.setKey([custom.key], [action.key] )

    Function.Call( KeyMap.Get( keypressed ) )

    so when setting say

    Set.Up     KeyMap( "W", "UP")

    Set.Down   KeyMap( "S", "DOWN")

    However the real trick is run time control

    On Any Key Pressed

    -- Function.Call( "Pressed" & KeyMap.Get( KeyPressed ) )

    On Any Key Released

    -- Function.Call( "Released" & KeyMap.Get( KeyPressed ) )

    You need to define how to set up the key map your self. but that's one theory of how to do custom key mapping.

  • I get the touch pads, but the buttons are in such a bad location. IThe buttons are too far indendented for practical use.

    I don't mind the left touch pad. That looks fine...

    actually. MEH and i mean MEH.

    it looks real crappy for a mouse based game. It looks ok ish for a twin stick game. overall it just seems to be a poor design. I wish this classic controller design would just die. it ******

    however I do like the TS center and the audio based haptics.

    > We probably won't support this until WebGL is ubiquitous.This.

    > General: Ashley already gave his answer about the 3D request. (...) You can discuss the matter for 30 pages, it won't change that simple fact.And this.

    <img src="https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/11182740/C2/images/c2.jpg" border="0" />

    And especially this.

    Now why doesn't it end? And why do people, who care for 3D, download a dedicated 2D game creator and then say: "Yeah it's nice'n all, but it needs 3D." <img src="smileys/smiley5.gif" border="0" align="middle" />

    And finally: It surprises me how extremely underestimated the workload for a 3D engine is in this thread. A team of about 100 people needed almost 5 years to offer UDK, which is still in development. I can only guess the size of the Unity team from the photo on their page, but it seems like also about 100 people. And it is developed since years, without any forseeable end in near future. Why should anyone think one man alone, or supported by 1 or 2 more persons with the money from a kickstarter campaign, could accomplish the same?

    C2 is a 2D game creator for a good reason...

    It's easy to look at a 3d engine like UDK and say it's taken years. UDK has some excellent out put. However even UDK isnt just the render of a model.

    Full blown 3D engines are a lot of work, but most of that is in factors of

    culling objects

    face culling

    MIP MAPS

    sorting algorythims due to camera direction

    physics

    behaviours

    a C2 3D used in 2d Games, but renders 3d objects in stead of sprites. already handles most of those. There is no need for sorting algorythim as it's still using the linear direction that's already in place. No need for MipMaps as likely the player in a 2d game won't be walking up to a wall. no need for face culling or object culling of a given scene as the scene view is always the same.

    I agree that a full blown 3D tool like Unity would be a problem. but there are 3 points to this discussion.

    Full 3D environment(Unity)

    2D environment with 3D objects(New Super mario Bros)

    no 3d.

    You argument is all 100% valid in a full 3D discussion, but for the others who want the effect of minor angles and such. it's an easy implementation compared to full 3d. This also means that C2 even with 3D objects is still a 2D game engine.

    Going full 3D would require new

    Physics

    Platform

    Solid

    bullet

    .. on and on.

  • Your did.... well mine doesn't :(   bah :( for me CocoonJS would just crash. Couldn't even load anything :(

    seriously Ludie support is really starting get on my nerves :|