The devil's advocate: Status quo of HTML5 gaming

I'm sorry but comparing art (charcoal v.s. ink v.s. oils) to a development platform or runtime environment for software is a ludicrous analogy. Does the paper or the canvas limit the number of charcoal strokes you can use versus oil strokes? Does the frame you hang your art in to display it limit it to only being compatible with watercolors and not oils? Is a viewer not able to view your artwork if it's in inks but not in charcoal?No. Not only is this like comparing apples to oranges, but it's comparing apples to buildings. Vast differences.

You have a point, but please ask yourself this :

Can you successfully make an color ink drawing with a piece of charcoal? Well no...

* Can you make HTML5 render a realtime 3D scene like exactly like Battlefield 3? Well no...

* Can you make cool fun games with HTML5, yes.

* Can you make Charcoal drawings with Construct 2, No...

Comparing HTML 5 with anything else is like comparing apples to oranges.

HTML5 does not act like Flash or Unity, because it is not Flash or Unity.

HTML5 is an art medium, and can be compared to other art mediums like Charcoal, IDTech4, Flash , Nude Kangaroo photography composition and Unity quite well.

If one is trying to do something that is in the scope of HTML 5 and they are failing, then they may need to work on their approach rather than blaming the art medium. (or the Kangaroo)

Can you successfully make an color ink drawing with a piece of charcoal? Well no...Why should anyone?...

Can you make HTML5 render a realtime 3D scene like exactly like Battlefield 3? Well no...I read all posts here a thousand times, but hell no, I just can't find where anyone claimed HTML5 to do so...

Can you make cool fun games with HTML5, yes.No. You can make a cool fun game with HTML5 on your system. If it's still fun for the customers depends on how your cool game is interpreted by browsers and operating systems. Playing your fun cool game on WinXP with Firefox turns it into a laggy 10 fps / sound stuttering torture. I doubt that poor customer will share your opinion of a cool fun game...

Can you make Charcoal drawings with Construct 2, No...Makes no sense at all. Construct 2 was never the topic...

Comparing HTML 5 with anything else is like comparing apples to oranges.Comparing the consitent behavior of HTML5 over different browsers/os with other competitors is the most important part, when someone really wants it to be competitive on the game market...

HTML5 does not act like Flash or Unity, because it is not Flash or Unity.No one wants it to act like something else. It should just be an implicitness that it shares the same consistency, if wanting to be a competitor in the game market...

HTML5 is an art medium, and can be compared to other art mediums like Charcoal, IDTech4, Flash , Nude Kangaroo photography composition and Unity quite well.Contradicts your last paragraph, and is not even true. HTML5 an art medium? Better read wikipedia. HTML5 is a markup language. No more, no less...

If one is trying to do something that is in the scope of HTML 5 and they are failing, then they may need to work on their approach rather than blaming the art medium. (or the Kangaroo)o, you mean that playing a looped sample that only gets heard looped if used with one specific browser, while another just ignores the looping order, it is my fault that the second one doesn't support the HTML5 standard, and I therefore have to work on my approach?

That's a funny post!

http://www.unrealengine.com/html5/

Maybe not BF3 but still pretty impressive for some "browser embedded".

Except when I go to the link, it says it requires FireFox 22. and not supported in the most current version of Chrome.

I totally agree with tulamide!

I remember ages back when I first sent my game to someone after knowingly getting full 60fps in Chrome and not much going on in the game, and they ended up getting like 15fps in Chrome (their machine could get 30fps out of a game like Left4Dead and 50-60fps out of Terraria).

I was so sad, til I realised that shrinking Chrome's window size boosted the framerate (it had to be shrunk so the game was like 320x300 to get 60fps lol), which was weird since Terraria runs nicely on their machine at 1360x768.

But yeah I open my project on Chrome these days on my mid-range computer and get 60fps, but sometimes get SFX not playing, whereas I load it on Firefox, and I get choppy 20fps for some reason, but the music and SFX play fine... I don't even know why lol. I do like how there's no incompatibility at ALL with how things display as far as I'm aware (I think the HSL shader was being weird depending on browser but I think that got sorted out), so sprites and the actual events run great on each browser. Lol but when it comes to wrappers, you realise the Button object don't work, some physics functions aren't working (I'm looking at you CocoonJS <img src="smileys/smiley22.gif" border="0" align="middle" /> ).

I'm not super involved with the mechanics of how HTML5 works and whatnot, but I'll give my opinion anyway:

HTML5 is young, but it's rapidly developing. Seems that all browsers adopted it, all the new consoles are adopting it, heck, Unreal even supports it like Kyatric posted. All I'm going to do, is wait patiently...

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*1 year later, HTML6 comes out, not compatible with HTML5*

Damnit!

If a developer wants to support a number of browsers, then each browser supported needs to be tested. Its just of reality of software development that you test each platform that your program runs on.

HTML5, C++ or whatever language you want to write your game in, all have pros and cons for implementation, deployment etc. If HTML5 isn't providing a good enough user experience, then choose a different technology. If there isn't a 'perfect' solution, then spend some time choosing the best solution for your needs, being fully aware of its short-comings.

Construct2 suits my needs (I'm using node-webkit and cocoonjs).

I think the question now is do you want to work on a platform that is over 10 years old, and about to loose support from its manufacturer?

There are some quirks and issues with HTML5 at the moment, but it's really on a fantastic trajectory.

When we first released C2, only desktop Chrome and desktop Firefox supported 2D canvas (no WebGL yet) with software rendering only, so you'd be lucky to get 30 FPS even on a high-end gaming machine. No mobile devices could even start up the games, and the latest version of IE was IE8 which didn't know what the <canvas> tag was.

Within 2 years, it's a substantially different picture. All desktop browsers have at least good support, and many mobile devices have good support (especially Chrome and Firefox on Android). Hardware acceleration is pretty much a given (last hold-out is the Android stock browser, which is well on the way to being replaced by Chrome for Android as the default).

I expect the next 2 years to bring the same level of improvement. IE 11 will support WebGL. Firefox will soon enable their Web Audio API implementation (which fixes the looping issue). WebGL support has doubled in the past year and according to Mozilla's stats is now supported on about two-thirds of all machines (including Windows XP, but up-to-date drivers are harder to come by on XP). The next version of Chrome for Android will support WebGL and it already supports the Web Audio API. And that's just the next couple of months.

I know people need to work on projects now, and these are real issues. But things are fast improving, and hopefully any long-term projects will see the issues solved before they go to launch.

> So, you mean that playing a looped sample that only gets heard looped if used with one specific browser, while another just ignores the looping order, it is my fault that the second one doesn't support the HTML5 standard, and I therefore have to work on my approach?

>

> That's a funny post!

Part of game development is taking what one is provided, and making something "game like" with it.

If one has found something that does not work, one needs need to first check one's own coding, then report bugs if They can not find any mistake.

If there is no solution to the dilemma, then one need to put "playing looped sounds" on the list of "Things I should not do with HTML 5". Right next to "Make pancakes" and "Fly kits".

As far as art mediums are concerned, Wikipedia dose not list frozen blood, but on another page claims an artist uses it as a medium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Quinn

I think we need to contact the editor and let them know about this error, and ask them to add HTML5 to the list.

<img src="smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0" align="middle" />

...then report bugs if They can not find any mistake.You miss the point! It is not a bug if HTML5 is supported as a whole on browser A but not on browser B. It is a trial of strength between companies.

If there is no solution to the dilemma, then one need to put "playing looped sounds" on the list of "Things I should not do with HTML 5". Right next to "Make pancakes" and "Fly kits".With this attitude HTML5 for sure will never be competitive.

As far as art mediums are concerned, Wikipedia dose not list frozen blood, but on another page claims an artist uses it as a medium:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Quinn

I think we need to contact the editor and let them know about this error, and ask them to add HTML5 to the list.That's exactly my point. Here's

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, pancake batter and refrigerators used as art mediums. With that argument, simply everything is an art medium, since it's being used by someone, somewhere, somehow to create art.

But an object is still categorized by its purpose. The purpose of HTML5 is to interpret human readable instructions to display web pages.

You sure have arguments for a lot of things, some of them I do totally agree with, but they have nothing to do with the topic of this thread (like art dicussions or the doubting of artistical talent). If you are really interested in what this thread is about, read Ashley's post.

Sorry, English is not my first language.

My point is , If you come to a wall, or a dead end do not give up. Try a different direction.

If one browser is acting poorly in your opinion, file a bug report with them, or with the people behind HTML itself. With the exception of Microsoft, and Apple, you can talk directly to the developers responsible for the HTML5 side of things in popular browsers.

I see people who have mastered the art of HTML5 game making, and are making money. Therefore I do not see it as a failure. I see games that are very complex, and very fun from newbie programmers like me.

I see it as a bright new future. Especially for me, because now I can make the games I was dreaming of back in the 1970's and 1980's.

Sorry if my posts seem abrasive or off-the-wall. I am not a native english speaker. And I am a grumpy old art/animation teacher.

My opinions on art are over opinionated sometimes.