Jase00's Forum Posts

  • I did keep in mind what Ashley said in mind, I responded to that.

    I've checked game dev comparison websites and such, and I can't find a comparable product to C3, one that ticks the three boxes that caused my concern when combined:

    • Is subscription based only
    • Is Web based only
    • Creates a file format that is designed to run in one application (yes its a zip file technically, no you cannot easily view or edit it by extracting it if C3 was closed, minus assets)

    If I could find some products comparable to the above, I would have checked their t&c's before being more worried in my replies.

    The closest comparable products to C3 to me are C2, CC, Gdevelop, GameMaker, clickteam fusion. But these don't tick the above 3 tick boxes I listed.

    I don't know why I'm battling how to spend my time and money, it's crazy, I've never had such an experience like this, I really thought you guys would empathise with the concept at least, even if you had to state a firm "No" to my request.

  • Tom But I'm not only talking about a "Closed Scirra", it could be any hypothetical, perhaps the "New lead CEO that shuts C3 down" one is more understandable? I don't know... I've never really dealt with this sort of debate before, I just want a game dev tool and to go back to making stuff.

    I really don't want the possible risk of losing access to my c3p files as I've mentioned, unlike C2 which does not have this risk. It matters far too much to me, maybe not to many others I guess.

    I have unsubscribed, sorry guys. I appreciate the time and replies.

  • Ashley

    I'm not really sure about other companies terms and conditions either, I only ever compared Construct 3 to Construct 2, and Construct Classic, and I mentioned Klick and Play once. And if I was about to go read a bunch of other products Terms and Conditions (I really just want to make games and apps, not read this stuff, jeez), then I'd be stuck because I don't know any other Game Development software that is both browser-based only, and subscription based (there's the one free competitor but, that's free and has an offline installer).

    Construct 3 is the first software subscription I've ever paid for, perhaps maybe that's why I'm panicing now about the future, and perhaps that's why I'm coming off as uneducated and frustrated. If it's the case that all "browser based subscription software" do not have these terms and no company wants to add them, then I think this is a very valuable lesson for me and I will have to be much more careful with subscriptions and then... I don't know, pay money based on pure trust that Scirra will sunset C3 gracefully.

    I want to emphasise again, the money that I will have paid:

    Construct 2 is 8 years old, and people still use it and can open all their project files indefinitely, for £70, and edit them if they have their licence key file.

    Construct 3 for 8 years, minimum, £679.92.

    You cannot brush this off for a hopeful third party to be able to rewrite the Construct 3 editor/runtime.

    Am I missing something here? Because I'm feeling very alone in my opinion. I'm happy to pay Scirra £679 over 8 years, as long as there was a legally binding item in the terms and conditions as I've mentioned in this thread.

    Without a legally binding item in terms and conditions, what if "the next Scirra CEO" decides "eh, nah, close C3 down", then ALL of us customers have no way to continue with their projects, and we have no legal grounds to do anything about this.

    In a lighter tone, perhaps Scirra could take the stance in an industry first, and provide what I'm suggesting which will give customers a sense of security and will make committing long-term to C3 much more appealing. Or not. It's up to you guys, it just striked me that this would be something Scirra would stand up for, I don't know why I had this idea.

    AllanR

    Thanks for the reply. I'm not familiar with many programming environments that are browser-based and subscription-based to research this, I did assume that this concept of browser-based subscriptions was a new thing as most people weren't on board a few years ago with C3 being browser-based to begin with.

    Exported projects are our only hope for preservation of our work (IF something happened to C3), and within the c3p file, if the code is that readable and it's that simple to not require C3, then wouldn't Scirra be concerned about a third-party runtime appearing right now?

    We can recover assets from a c3p file, sure, but if you backed up your files, then, you probably backed up your assets and original files if organised and backed up correctly (although it is nice to be able to recover if ALL you had was your c3p file).

  • If there was a legally binding requirement that Scirra must provide a solution to open c3p files in the end, then this would NOT be able to be negated by a new Scirra leader, or any, ANY, hypothetical situation. Hypothetical does not mean impossible, sure it could mean unlikely.

    Some very rare case exceptions where I think everyone would agree that it's very different would be if scirra's staff caught covid or a fire happened at Scirra, that would be very tragic and I don't have answers about that.

    But general business situations, this is not acceptable and I'm surprised you do not seem to agree with this.

  • Ashley

    ... So basically we have no guarantee, and that's that? ALL c3 users have the risk of never having access to their c3p files, IF a situation happened.

    Do you have a backup solution in place in event of file loss for C3's builds? I ask because that's also not exactly stated anywhere as far as I can see. This information needs to be told (not locations or what software you use to make backups, just reassurance for gods sake).

    Your replies here don't even attempt to convince me that my project files that I may spend £100's if not £1000's on may not be openable IF a situation happened in future. There really should be a clear stance on this, especially legally.

    People are still using C2 now; for the record I have spent a few hours of convo trying to convince this person to move over to C3 as they're still not sold on C3, if anything they've enlightened me to something I strongly feel about but embarrassingly missed, I was sold mostly on how great the editor looks and the C3 runtime, as well as a monthly sub option.

    Some projects I spent so many years on in C2 cannot be opened in c3 due to addons, (I'm trying to avoid using addons in my C3 projects due to this, but had been forced to for one thing) so I do no have faith that c3p files will be 100% compatible with the concept of a "future product" IF that happened.

    I'm sorry Ashley but the c2 comment you made is simply not correct, virtual machines exist, old hardware exists, and these methods are possible due to installer files and licence key files. C3 does not have these options, which as of now I respect as this is probably a great anti-piracy measure to not have local licence key files, and other reasons. But having no legal obligation that Scirra should release a way to open c3p files IF a situation happened, then I cannot defend c3 in this case.

    Ive already started 3 projects and was really committed to C3 but this question and your answers are really making me lose confidence.

    By the way, if by the end of this discussion Scirra did decide "no we are not going to legally guarantee that you can access your c3p files in the event that c3 is inaccessible" then I would be EXTREMELY ticked off if I paid for a year as I know this cannot be refunded, sure it would have been my fault for not spotting the lack of statement before subscribing, but I thought Scirra was better than that.

  • Ashley Many thanks for the response, but I think I wasn't clear with my questions.

    I mentioned C4 as a small joke, not as an expectation or the discussion, but my original question is very important to me. My main concern is, and lets be realistic here as we all don't know what the future holds:

    Lets fast forward a random amount of years, e.g. 5 years. Lets say for whatever reason:

    Scirra makes a new product and ends C3 and the new product doesn't load some aspect of c3p files therefore rendering c3p files unusable. Or maybe Scirra doesn't receive payments and must shut down, there's many possibilites, positive or negative (I wish for great things for Scirra, of course!) whatever the reason, the main point is that C3 becomes inaccessible and the verification servers are inactive. Let me stress, I'm not suggesting there's going to be a new product, and I'm not thinking Scirra is going downhill, but please follow the hypothetical situation.

    So my concern is, that I cannot find in the terms and conditions that there is a legal requirement that Scirra will provide a solution to opening c3p files if Scirra must retire C3 for whatever reason.

    Whereas right now, we can open Construct Classic CAP files indefinitely, and Construct 2 CAPX files indefinitely, as long as we have the installer (and licence key file for Construct 2).

    So, 5 years pass, C3 is down and the verification servers are offline. Now: the person I was talking to that uses Construct 2, they would had continued to use a very dated C2 which can be potentially maintained by custom builds and downloading NodeWebkit updates. C2 will always generate the HTML5 code in the end, plugins can still be made indefinitely to expand C2.

    This means they would have spent about £70 one-time, and they will confidently know that they can open their .capx files indefinitely, even in 30 years time if they kept their capx files. All the source code is previewable/buildable so long as they keep an installer of C2 and the licence key file.

    Compare that to me, who would have have either paid monthly (£839 for 5 years) or yearly (£424 for 5 years). And without the legal requirement that Scirra will provide a way to open c3p files, then Scirra "could" simply close the Construct 3 website down, close the verification servers, and there would be no way to locally open, build, or edit our source code (our c3p files).

    I'm sure a third-party individual would try and find a way to preserve the offline version of C3, but would we seriously be expected to rely on this after spending the above money over the years (and that's only 5 years, imagine more), simply to have a risk of having all those years of work just locked away?

    I still have my KickNPlay (released in 1994) games from when I was young, and personally these are very sentimental, so long as I keep backups of the installer and game, I can still find a way to view them if I wish even after 25+ years. But with C3, I'd be extremely ticked off if I lost even 5 years of real game development work (which may need to be maintained, updating old games, etc.) simply because there was no legally binding reason for Scirra to release a solution to open c3p files.

    I am not complaining about the subscription model, I must clarify, the cost is absolutely fine, and I'm not asking for an offline way to read/edit c3p files whilst C3's verification servers are active (although an downloadable Offline "Construct 3 Player" with event sheet view stripped out and only preview mode available would be great for archival/preservation reasons).

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  • Hello!

    I'm quite happy with C3, but talking to someone who still uses C2, they raised a fair point that I couldn't find the answer to (I read terms and conditions but was unsure, tried googling but keep finding C2 posts).

    1) If C3 was going to be ending in the future (for Construct 4 or something!) or, I hope not, but it Scirra had to shutdown for whatever reason, then is there set terms and conditions detailing what happens?

    I ask due to being a subscription model, and how offline mode requires a regular online checkup to verify our login (meaning your servers are required to validate ourselves), then is there terms set in place so that we would not be locked out of our historical work and all of our c3p files in future?

    The defense of C2 was that they can indefinitely use C2 forever as it simply works offline and the licence file works offline, and download updated node webkit downloads to continue producing modern content.

    2) The website's terms and conditions, does "website" apply to the editor itself, as the editor is part of Construct.net?

    If not, am I missing where to find the terms and conditions specifically for the editor on the Scirra website? I ask as I was trying to research question 1 myself without needing to post.

    Many thanks!

  • Hello!

    Funnily enough, I was trying to look into this again today.

    I think one part that I was stuck at that I cannot find a solution for is enabling "Cross domain" communication in a preview window (or access-origin or something, I can't recall), so that we can communicate between the iframe and Construct 3.

    I am at work at the moment so I cannot look too much right now, but I would still like to know how to configure this.

  • Mikal

    Unbelievable, I would never have guessed this (I understand I had to disable this when switching to C2 Runtime, but I wouldn't have picked this out as the issue).

    I appreciate it so much that you told me this, you have just answered several questions I've been having due to this, I always use text objects as I figured they were similar to "Notepad" on Windows, and good for quickly displaying some text.

    Very many thanks for this, you have no idea how much this helps me.

  • Hello!

    I'm trying to send array data on a Multiplayer game. I understand the concept of arrays but I think I might be using "AsJSON" incorrectly.

    I wanted to send array data across using "Send Message" on Multiplayer, I figured simply sending the string "Array.AsJSON" would work and then load it into the array on the other player, but this was not working, and the more I checked this, the more I got confused.

    Here is a very simple c3p - Text, Array, Keyboard.

    https://drive.google.com/open?id=17KF9b2uOerfpYxmvivbUkfamI5BsRD6e

    Text is always set to "Array.AsJSON", and the array size is the default 10,1,1.

    If you press SPACE it will attempt to set several array coordinates to "Hello", which I would have thought would display on the Text.

    But then, nothing happens on the string. I tried "Set Array Size" to see if that would fix but it does not. All I see is: {"c2array":true,"size":,"data":],],],],],],],],],]]}

    [Is the above array supposed to have nothing next to "size"?]

    I can read values using "Array.At()" and it would return "Hello", so the array is storing data, but just not displaying "AsJSON" how I was expecting it to.

    Am I using this incorrectly? Am I supposed to call the array.asjson in a different way? Or is this simply not how AsJSON can be used?

    Many thanks!

    Tagged:

  • It would be good if this information was more visible, as it was very unexpected that some saving methods (I use local file save) suddenly reverted to download. Made me believe it was a bug.

    It seems to only be mentioned in the sticky as mentioned afaik, but it's a sticky that's been there for a while that we wouldn't exactly be looking at for news about functionality changes of Construct 3,even if it was only temporary.

  • Ashley Many thanks for the reply!

    Where would people share this? Like I mentioned, the topics are closed, so I can't ask the user "hey what's your email" or tell them mine. Unless I start a topic calling their name?

    I don't want to inherently share mine to the public or in an open topic, too. I would rather specifically choose who I would like to message, but even better if they had contact details on their profile (but this feature no longer exists on these forums?)

  • Thanks — ! Admittedly though, I found this when searching and remember the user asking to get it sticked, so I take it it is unofficial.

    I would be very interested in an official means of communication, one that Scirra recommends everyone uses.

  • Ashley As PM's will not be returning, is there a recommended form of communication amongst forum users, such as maybe an official discord server that everyone is aware of?

    Over a week ago, I posted a bug report about a possible multiplayer bug, but I see you (Ashley) tried this and was unable to reproduce, and suggested some suspicious actions in my c3p file.

    I have been unable to provide more substantial detail as of now, but the bug still persists even with action changes, I already spent hours changing my events around in my main project and then was able to quickly reproduce this on a separate small c3p, at most I suspect maybe that clicking "preview" whilst already in a room will not auto-close the room, and then joining the same room causes issues (I don't know for sure but it's getting very tedious to test).

    Back to the point of this post: a user recently posted a multiplayer bug that sounded similar to my bug, and I saw their topic and bug report. I posted and shared that maybe my bug is similar to theirs.

    Well, now, both their forum topic and their bug report is closed... So how can I communicate with this one user to speak more, just in case discussing it may bring us to answers? I really don't want to blindly test for a further number of hours, and would be great to have the option to discuss this without worrying about the topic or bug report closing, which suddenly ends communication.

    Recently, I was able to discover the cause of a bug affecting multiple users when creating Keystores. After posting the fix, I realised there were posts spanning weeks about this bug as others were linking their own post to the fix I posted. The only reason I was able to help find this fix was due to googling someone's username and luckily finding an email address (which looks dodgy for that user to begin with).

    I will add that the Keystore bug did not affect me and I was doing this just to try to be helpful and be more part of the Scirra community.

    If there's no PM system or official discord, is it really just the case that we cannot communicate? Could we maybe have communication links in our profile (so people can click on our username, then see their email, or steam, or discord, etc.) please?

    If not, I have to say, it feels very unusual to have communication so restricted, it's discouraging to spend hours on a bug issue and come out with "cannot reproduce, check your events" which after doing gives the same results, and I don't have the ability to reach out to possibly similar users to discuss this.

    Hello!

    I posted on your bug report with a link to a bug report I made recently that I thought might be related to your bug.

    Here is my recent post about this "joining room sometimes causes messages to fail" bug when using the Multiplayer plugin.

    construct.net/en/forum/construct-3/general-discussion-7/multiplayer-peer-leave-room-152152

    And the bug report itself:

    github.com/Scirra/Construct-3-bugs/issues/3834

    I also provide a video in my bug report demonstrating this issue.

    If this is unrelated, I apologise, but I got stuck with my issue and Ashley could not reproduce, so I had moved on and made a temporary workaround in my project for now.