@EyeHawk

I was curious how you would reply, but I guess I over looked it. I agree that this conversion has gotten out of hand.

Now let's be honest. You obviously didn't know anything about job bidding sites before you commented in it's defense. Your initial comment asking for advice proves it. The only valid thing you said in our discussion was that the American dollar is worth more than some other countries. And you abandoned that argument quickly. I'm guessing it's because I pointed out that there isn't any reason why they couldn't make more if they weren't being taken advantage of.

You also made a vague comment about an "economics" wikipedia page, but you failed to elaborate on how economics supports your argument. I think that would have been interesting discussion, and your best shot, but it appears you don't know enough about that either.

You did make an excellent point that morality is subjective, but you still avoid answering if it's right to take advantage of people or how that might be considered subjective. I even asked you directly on several occasions. You don't want to answer that question because no matter how you answer, it would weaken your argument.

The fact is, you lost the argument a long time ago. You haven't said anything of significance in a while. All you are doing now is making personal insults and making false claims in order to anger me and put me on the defensive in hopes of diverting our discussion from a main issue. I admit you have been fairly successful with it. You are a very good troll. But that doesn't amount to much.

If you really wanted a "genuine debate", you would have stayed on topic and already made your points by now. Instead, you turned this into a flame war, and I've lost interest. So no PM's and no more discussion. That is, you can keep talking all you want, but I'm going to ignore you.

One last thing... If you want to be a stand-up guy, you could try to find and post a few helpful links for Michal11. I've already done it and I think it's the right thing to do, since we wasted so much of his time and took over his thread for (as it turns out) no apparent reason.

Bye! :)

A couple more...

zhibit.org/categories/new-media/digital-art

worldartistdirectory.com/artdbase

You can also Google image search key words "game art portfolio" or "indie game art portfolio" and you'll find even more artists. If you see something you like, click the image and it will probably lead you to the artist.

I'm out of resources, but I hope that helps! :)

Here's a few more links. ;)

aniboom.com

directoryofillustration.com

awn.com/village/animators.php3

imagineanimation.net/directory

dir.yahoo.com/Arts/Design_Arts/Graphic_Design

Your game is awesome! I love the humor. I'm a little creeped out about the ending, but journey was a lot of fun.

One more truth:

Comic Sans loves you.

It's looking good! I like the story idea too.

If you don't care for the forced perspective of Zelda, maybe something like that of Ultima VI for SNES or Dink Smallwood for the PC will work better for you. Still overhead, but at slightly different angles. If you haven't played Dink Smallwood, I think the story might be right up your ally. I sense you must have a good sense of humor.

Good luck with the project. It shows a lot of promise!

It worked for me the first time, but then the "w" key stopped responding. When it works, it's simple and fun. Keep it up!

EyeHawk,

This isn't meant as an insult, but are you new to the English language or using translation software? It seems you have a hard time understanding me. I've also noticed you use words incorrectly and your comments tend to be nonsensical. If that's the case, I think it's possible we have been misunderstanding one another. The software you are using probably isn't very accurate and it could make what you are saying come out all wrong.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you're really a nice guy and you don't mean to insult, throw around baseless accusations or make irrational assumptions about someone you hardly know.

I'd like to extend the same invitation to you to PM me and discuss why you love job bidding sites so passionately. Maybe you can also better explain why you think artists enjoy underbidding one another and working hard for low wages. Since you're an expert on job bidding sites like freelancer.com, maybe I can learn something new from you that I don't already know from personal experience.

Hi Guys, so can anyone share their experiences from hiring an artist from freelancer.com, indiegamer.org, etc?

Also, Freelancer lists the rates and stuff, but I'm still not clear on how long it would take to draw stuff, and thus figure out very rough total costs. Can anyone give me an idea of money spent and the actual output?

jchamplain - Ah still banging on about morality I see. :)

Well, yeah. That's what I initially posted about. I didn't pull you into the conversation. You imposed yourself by saying I didn't make sense, so I felt I had to explain. My intial comment was short and friendly and felt your response was a little careless and rude.

If you had stated you simply disagree and see nothing wrong with sites like freelancer.com, I wouldn't have responded. When you attack someone's idea or belief, you initiate a discussion about it. Honestly, I could care less if you use job bidding sites. That's your choice. I'm not going to lose sleep over it. I just don't like to be stepped on. I don't think anyone does.

I don't appreciate your last sentence, but I'll keep my opinion of you to myself. I hope you'll be nicer to people you interact with in the future and I wish you good luck in your future endeavors. :)

Let's get this thread back on topic. It wasn't my intention to get caught up in a debate about ethics. Here's a few links.

hireanillustrator.com/i

illustrationmundo.com

forums.indiegamer.com/forumdisplay.php

pixeljoint.com/forum/forum_topics.asp

game-artist.net/forums/employment

gamedev.net/classifieds

opengameart.org/forums/open-commissions

forum.deviantart.com/jobs/offers

kongregate.com/forums/8-collaborations

forums.tigsource.com/index.php

indiedb.com/forum/board/recruiting-resumes

newgrounds.com/art

gameartisans.org/jobs/index.php

lostgarden.com/2011/03/list-of-game-artists.html

wayofthepixel.net/index.php

Hope that helps. Good luck!

Another straw man arguement.

It's your dilemma, not mine. I said it's wrong to take advantage of people. You are trying to defend the system that allows you to take advantage of people.

I haven't used the word "exploitation". Although it means the same in the most extreme sense, it's not a direct quote.

Whether or not I decide to start a business is none of your business. Unless you are currently a successful business man, your advice has little value to me or to anyone. Even if you are, I have reason to question your business ethics.

I'm actually a very open minded person. If you can make an strong arguement why it's ok to take advantage of people, I will give it some thought. So far, all you have been able to do is pick apart my comments, misquote me, fabricate talking points, all while ignoring the underline message.

"Do you think it's morally right to take advantage of people?"

@kittiewan

Glad I could help. :)

@EyeHawk

That's a straw man argument. My position is simply a moral one. Doing the right thing is a personal choice and not an economical one. My idea of success isn't measured on how many people I can take advantage of in order to get ahead or how much money is in the bank. It's measured in other ways. I think your advice is best left for people more like yourself.

jchamplain -- actually, I was thinking of myself as the artist, not the employer. I've been hungry. I've bid really low on projects because I really, really needed the work, or really really wanted the job. Quite recently, in fact. It really pisses me off when...Never mind. You've already said your mind is closed.

Well, that's another matter all together. You don't have to starve or work for pennies. There's plenty of decent employers willing to pay you a decent wage for your hard work. Here's a few job links. Good luck, and remember, don't sell yourself short. ;)

indeed.com/jobs

creativeheads.net

programmermeetdesigner.com

krop.com

simplyhired.com/a/jobs/list/q-art