lennaert - Yeah I see what you mean, but I'm saying that it's not magic at all and the difficulty level is vastly less than you imagine. Really, it just takes a minute. The lack of selling this is a fault of Scirra. Even though they wrote a good tutorial on it, it does look so big and daunting.

I do see how it being a lack of 'from Scirra' is a bad thing, it did turn me off for ages. But that is a cultural thing too, if every search for collaboration was full of 'so simple!' and it was on the front page when you visited Scirra, people wouldn't shy away from it. Again, as with a lot of Scirra's issues, this could be bettered with improved website organisation.

Also someone wrote here about being able to mess around with the UI (sorry couldn't find it again) - this is actually my dream ^^ I have such extensive engines and transporting them between projects is easy, but I want to make it easier for my team to use by making pop-ups, increasing the height of variable entry fields, etc.. But, I can see that's not a priority.

DatapawWolf - And I rebuke! ;) So far multiplayer requires coding to some degree. The fact that 'not everyone can do it' is against the mission statement of Scirra and excludes the bulk of their users. If you don't mind dealing with websockets you won't mind using Unity, so why use Construct? There is no argument that modularity would be awesome, but as long as a massive feature like multiplayer is still absent from events, it needs to take second place.

I could go on about it for hours, but honestly I see it as plain as that, need over want.

lennaert - why not just use an SVN?

Paradox - Haha, alright that's where I'm going wrong then :P Luckily I also did the IDE method while waiting for appbackr, so I got my game in on time. Just no extra cash in my pocket.

jayderyu - Yeah definitely convenience is a huge deal, every single click you can reduce is a big deal when it comes to getting people to learn tools. But it's just not something that's missing from C2 and is not difficult to use. The main problem is no-one taking advantage of it, which stems a lot from it seeming like a lot of work. I worked with Excal a few times earlier on doing the 'copy your work over' approach and it was hell. It was just never made obvious how easy an SVN is to set-up, and when you look for collab solutions on the forums, you mainly find 'CANNOT DO! NOT FOR TEAMS! PREPARE FOR HELL!', instead of a whole bunch of 'oh just do this'.

So, I think instead of adding features it's far more efficient for Scirra to shove what's available in people's faces. I mean come on, look at the insane amount of effort people go to to try to get their games working on mobile, and then those same people think an SVN is too hard.

Excal - I think the 'help me make my game' is a legitimate way to go, but only if you have enough experience. As you said, when you team up you feel you're all dragging in different directions, which is not a good way to go! So from the start it should be understood who is the designer, and that person should set out the systems for the rest to work off. Sure, the others should give their ideas and try to put as much of themselves into the game as possible, but the lead really needs to be able to say 'sorry, but that's not the direction of the game.'. This is the best thing for the game and those trying to learn.

Also different specialities are a must - I love making experience systems and in-depth damage systems, but as soon as it needs to be represented on screen productivity grinds to a halt. Whereas there are many people who only want to lay down images on screen and have them work. Of course it helps if everyone understands how and why other things are done, but specialisation streamlines production in a big way.

I do think it would rock the house if there was a 'module capx' section of sorts. I've learnt so much from people posting answers to their own questions when they find them, but you need to ask some specific questions in searches to come across these gems. I made this system for example, that lets you easily manipulate arrays and would love to get some feedback on it, but I don't really know where to post it and don't see many getting use from it after a day or two when it sinks in the forums. I've already expanded it to have many more applications (like pushing on axis even when duplicates, acquiring indexes of Y, etc.), and it only requires you to have functions and a family, nothing more. And the thing is, even though it's great for me, I have no idea if something similar is out there or where to find it if it is. For all I know I've just wasted a heap of time on an inferior version of something someone made months ago.

And actually I believe modularity, as totally fantastic as it would be, is easily second to multiplayer. Everyone wants to make multiplayer games, and currently they can't. Not many people want to collaborate, but they can. So modularity is clearly a second place here, although a massively important second place.

But whatever the case or viewpoint on all of the above, this is definitely a conversation that needs to appear more often with C2 :)

Paradox - Appbackr offered me some cash too, but then stopped replying to me. Did you have any troubles with contacting them?

jayderyu - for the SVN, it just seems trickier than it is. I stumbled around for a while even with the tutorial, but that was mainly due to having to forward my ports. So yeah, if you don't know how to do that it can be a pain, but once you do know it only takes a few minutes to set up and works great. And only 1 team member needs a server, the clients take less than a minute to set up.

So here complexity isn't the problem, more clarity. The tutorial should be tightened up, add some links to port-forwarding tutorials or something and really get it out there how easy it is to use.

I've come to realise C2 is actually quite easy to collaborate on via SVN and with good planning you can make most things modulated. Although it does take good planning that is usually quite advanced.

But I do think lack of collaboration is the worst part of C2 - most people I talk to here about it say "Nah, C2 is just for a designer and an artist.", which is really not good. By making it so easy to develop on C2 people think "I don't need anyone else now!" instead of "Wow, imagine what a team could do now!". Especially with Spriter (and hopefully soon Sprite Lamp), you can make some stunning games at a ridiculous speed.

So with that said, I am a huge believe that C2 can be a massive market player if the users start coming together on projects and raise the scope above mobile. A team of 5 people on C2 could do what a 15 man team could via code, and there are no serious bugs in (non-mobile) C2 anymore.

So if there's anyone out there with a little experience who wants to try for something impressive, send me a message. I've got a very large RPG engine brewing away that 3 of us start on next year, and I would love another experienced programmer or two! Particularly if you are any good at menus, or maybe you have a neat little piece that could suit as a mini game. It currently has full text systems that require no events, a really flexible combat engine (allows for card game style effects like tracking number of pumps, base vs modified stats, etc. etc.), controller support of all forms and lots of other pieces.

lucid - Thanks! I just didn't know I had to do that each new version. Also though I am having trouble with the packs as they say 'download expired'. They worked when I first got it, but that was just before the new additions. Anyway, sending you an email now with details.

lucid - The links for b6 take me to the free version, even though I bought the pro version. How do I upgrade it? And also I never got the extra animations (with the man on the ladder etc.).

Roccinio - Haha, no problem! I am still having export troubles myself, which seems no-one has had trouble with.

Roccinio - Yeah there is 'on any finished' and 'on (name) finished'.

krish - Yeah they definitely fixed it, I have played other people's exes with Spriter objects in them now. And for me in works in node webkit preview (not browser preview). So it seems I just have something funky with my system.

You can check the chatter here: scirra.com/forum/spriter-c2-plugin-update-11-28-2013_topic59694_page58.html