szymek - If you code it right, C2 has no problem with thousands of events because they don't all have to run every tick. Using groups and subevents, it only runs the ones needed. For example:

Sprite.count > 0

• do stuff with sprite

If sprite.count is 0, the entire subevent tree is immediately skipped. Because of this, you can have thousands of events even on mobile as long as not too many of them are actually running each tick.

I have a hard time imagining a game that requires 10,000 events to run every tick.

Currently been working on 2 native compilers for android and ios for the past month.

DUDE

Interest piqued

Like seriously

Please don't give up on this. PLEASE.

Do you have any plans on how to deal with the memory management problem with large games loading everything at the start? Or would that require collaboration with scirra to add more manual memory management options? Or perhaps a plugin?

jobel - probably so, but it's pointless for me to bother with at this point.

Sadly, I also have such significant problems with my ears that I can't use voice recognition due to being unable to tolerate almost any sound any more, including that of my own voice. Hyperacusis - don't get it. Seriously.

Thanks for the thought though. If you want to discuss it further we should probably do so via PM, as to not derail the thread with my health problems.

jobel

I've tried, I just can't seem to wrap my head around it for some reason. There's all these random symbols scattered all over the place in seemingly random places and every tutorial I tried, even ultra beginner's newbie's very first tutorial series for dummies seems to think that I already know what they mean. I just look at code and see gobbledygook. Then I found construct and stopped trying to learn to code, as C2's editor is the editor I've always imagined and wanted anyway.

It also doesn't help that I have problems with my hands and it hurts to type. I have to use a Wacom with C2 and assistive devices to type a lot of the time, which are utterly unusable for traditionally writing code. So yeah, without C2, I'm not making games at all. I really don't have the option of looking elsewhere.

I already suggested letting the community develop a wrapper from an abstraction layer for us to create native wrappers. It was vetoed.

I don't recall reading about this. How it would work?

Also if anyone wants to create a C2JS converter to another language there really isn't any reason you can't.

Yes there is, I have no ability to code traditionally at all.

Accept what it is right now. Complaints aren't going to change.

These are significant issues, please don't discourage discussion of them.

As for power. If your supporting older hardware don't. You may have older hardware(as i do); however that doesn't mean you should support it. It's callous, but the truth is that mobile CPU/GPU techonology is advancing at a faster rate than desktop. Next year or two will stabilize this. Next year you will have mobile chips that perform PS3 level performance. If that's the case why are you supporting iphone4. The most common iOS version is 7+ at this time. If you know that then you know none of the A4 chips can run iOS7. You can classify all A4 chips and there equivelent Android counterparts as already obsolete. Stop supporting that generation of chips.

The most common ipad is the ipad 2. I mean, apple is still even selling the thing. By your own logic we should continue supporting it. Also, phone companies continue to sell older phones for cheaper. The point is if we had native exporters, we wouldn't have to set the cutoff so high and would therefore have a larger audience. It's the same reason sony is still supporting the ps3 now that the ps4 is out. There's still a sizable audience there.

Arima I don't agree with you that all images are LOADED into the game memory upon the game start. Watching the memory profile for the game drastically changes on Layout to Layout. What C2 does is DOWNLOAD all the assets locally and LOADS them into memory at run time. JS does have a Garbage collector as does Java. Java runs Android and there really isn't a problem. it's not a memory management problem. However CJS sucks for memory management and does suffer your statement of loading everything. However CJS is the exception not the norm.

Textures are not alone in determining total memory use. Instances, music, garbage and a ton of other things contibute.

C2 does in fact load all images at the start. You can tell by going to chrome's developer tools and looking at the resources, from the very start, with the exception of a loader layout, all of the images for the whole game are there. I think you're forgetting about VRAM. C2 downloads or reads from disk all textures at the start AND puts them into ram, but with webgl on, only puts the ones for the current layout in VRAM. Layout by layout loading only controls what gets put into VRAM, not RAM. Additionally, images in ram might not be decompressed until they're needed if webgl is in use - if that is the case that would cause ram use to fluctuate as well (I'm not entirely sure about that point though).

Personally I think C2 weakest link is that a large multitude of games possibly well more than 50% have a logic FPS at 30. Where as C2 mandatory runs at 60Fps. If your device doesn't run the game at 60fps then the game suffers. I know no matter how much Ash says other wise; it just does. If we could set the logic fps30 properly then even when your game seriously dips or your logic is poor your games would suffer less. But that's not going to happen

As far as I understand it, that would be easier to implement with native too.

Also Arima you shoot yourself in the foot by using this engine to make a medium-ish game from the start.I dont think its possible, on mobile its clearly not, on web maybe, but not sure how it will work on standard laptops/pcs.

It's entirely possible with node webkit, as has been demonstrated by games like airscape, our darker purpose, the next Penelope and others as well as my own tests. The downsides are still there though like potential long loading times and no hardware acceleration on XP/vista.

newt - I was responding to both. I guess my response "If a lot of people are complaining about something, then it's likely a real problem" should have been just to the second quote.

I also stand by my response that the 'if you don't like it, look elsewhere' mindset is detrimental to scirra's success, and constructive criticism of C2 should not be discouraged. We've allowed and encouraged honest discussion of construct in the past when it was still in early development, and we should continue that now that it is more complete. Honest discussion of a product's flaws helps bring awareness to scirra how to improve the product based upon the customer's needs. That process has helped make c2 as great as it is.

I mean, look at the people who have said these problems are causing them to look elsewhere. That means less business for scirra. It's a issue of real importance to scirra's customers and potential customers which directly affects scirra's business, so should be discussed. C2 is great, but that doesn't mean it can't be even better.

To be honest, I'm starting to get a bit disillusioned with html5 myself. I wasn't happy with the idea of html5 only initially, but was eventually convinced that it was a good idea since the whole industry was moving to support it, but after years of waiting I'm still frustrated and disappointed by several things.

• Html5 has no manual memory management. You cannot dump anything from ram, you have to wait for the browser to do it for you, and you have no idea when it will do so, and garbage collection can cause stutters. Layout by layout loading only handles what textures are sent to the video card, so does not help with this. This problem makes large mobile games pointless to bother with because since they don't free up memory they just crash. I wanted to put loot pursuit on mobile, but it's just not an option, and I only found that out after months of work, which was quite upsetting. I've been using construct for about 7 years and consider myself pretty knowledgeable about it, so it's quite likely less experienced users won't realize this limitation without first putting in wasted work too. C2 loading everything at the start also causes long loading times, but hopefully something can be done about that while still using html5.

• Javascript's poor performance. On desktop it's not as much of an issue, but on mobile it's obvious, and is made worse by the fact that iOS doesn't allow compiling JavaScript in apps, making things like cocoonjs like 2/5ths of the speed of safari in my tests, and safari was already behind native. It's also disappointing that on all platforms, C2 will always be steps behind native exporters in speed (this segment is again about the speed of the code, not the rendering - C2's rendering is written in webgl, which as I understand, IS basically running natively and in one of my older tests was faster than CC's rendering). That said, on desktop I very rarely encounter speed problems on an amd 4400+, which is old enough that it can't even decode 1080p video smoothly, so that says good things about the speed there, but we're still always behind what we could have, and what the competition has.

• Reliance on third parties for export, which despite all their efforts, which are appreciated, have proven to be still not ready for prime time, years later. Relying on third parties means scirra cannot control the quality of their own product, which is disappointing as scirra has a terrific editor.

This also means we're beholden to their whims, like chrome, and therefore node webkit, disabling hardware acceleration on all XP and vista systems. I mean, seriously, wtf.

The truth of the matter is C2's competition - almost all the competition - has native exporters, and what we're experiencing is why. Clickteam has it. Game maker has it. Unity has it. The list goes on and on.

Ashley - if you read this, when you respond to the idea of native exporters (I could be wrong about this, I apologize if so but it's the impression I get), it seems like you think we're talking about you making your own complete browser engine, because you talk about how you couldn't compete with google or such's team of engineers. We're not. What we want is just native games, no web tech that games don't need. Yes it would make a lot of third party plugins obsolete, but I just don't care as I don't use them that often. i really think html5 is holding C2 back.

I don't believe that it's impossible to create native exporters that work better than chrome. There's thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands of games out there that do exactly that. Chrome is trying to support everything a web browser can do. Games need only a fraction of that. We don't need CSS or whatever web tech. Trying to support them all is not an achievable task for a small team, but supporting all of the functions needed just for games has been achieved by many, many small teams out there, including you guys with the native exporter in construct classic.

Yes, it might take a while to code. I understand that C2 is solidly on the html5 train, and it's not good to try to get off a train while it's in motion. However, if someone could be hired to work on it concurrently, then work on the current to do list would be able to continue at the same time and no delay in updates to c2 would occur.

However, even if you can't find someone to help, then even working by yourself I think when most or all of the stuff on the to do list is done, then a switch to native should happen. I don't know if 3d could be considered at that point as well, but I also think it should be incorporated, and that might be a good place to do so, or to at least lay the framework for it to be implemented later on.

C2 has the best editor out there that I've tried, hands down. It shouldn't be held back by its exporters. Exporting to native would make it a powerhouse would dominate the competition. As it is, and this is really painful to say considering how much I love this program - I'm finding it harder and harder to recommend c2 to people unless they fall into very specific categories and don't mind the caveats.

Well, nobody is making you use C2, perhaps you should try some other software.

Here we go with the weekly native thread disguised as something else.

That's really not the right position to take. Scirra's event editor isn't available anywhere else, and without it I wouldn't be making games at all as I am terrible at traditional code. Also, it just drives away people who would otherwise become paying customers.

Scirra's got a great product, but it is not without its flaws, and we shouldn't discourage discussion of them, as discussing them constructively can result in a better product. If a lot of people are complaining about something, then it's likely a real problem.

Please don't create multiple threads for the same topic. You can edit your posts instead.

Congrats!

Moved.