newt

In defense, the first .capx only contained few objects. The asset sizes don't matter, the object count is the one that shows the symptoms of the problem.

The main purpose of the first .capx created by the OP was just to show the 1 sec. delay in updated Windows 10 devices.

But since Ashley can't reproduce significant effects due to object count not being enough. I created the second .capx which you should have instead tried to find significant effects especially with newer devices.

With the second .capx . It only has about 32x32 mostly similar images for about ~ 960+- objects. Only around 40+- objects have big mostly similar images. Which can be feasibly deleted in older devices but not in Windows 10 Creators Update + due to being nearly unusable.

So it's clearly not a memory/cpu problem, considering in most high end devices tested, memory use never reached near maximum. And neither did the CPU/GPU. Not even close.

Although, aside from Windows Update destroying drivers, custom manufacturer settings and applications that causes incompatibilities. It is surely not the main cause.

Even though older devices with older OS experiences way better performance.

It is still clear that older Windows OS devices also experience this C2 design flaw. Though not to the extend of 5 to 20 seconds delay or crashing for 2 reasons I've mentioned before, which are project sizes / object counts not meeting the reproduced requirement relative to the OS performance overhead.

—

Tried your capx on 2 laptops (both with r246 version of C2):

New i5-7200U, 8Gb RAM, SSD, Win 10 - project took 3.5 minutes to load, dialogs take 5-10 seconds to open, everything is laggy.

Five years old i7-3630QM, 8Gb RAM, SSD, Win 8.1 - project took 3+ minutes to load, but dialogs are opening almost instantly, previewing is also fast.

Looks like you are right, performance is much better on older machines.

Thank You for testing. The more data and confirmation the better support for the bug fix to lessen the range of devices Ashley need to reproduce it.

New Update: Performance Workaround

This is not a fix but just a workaround to lessen delays that nearly matches Windows 8.1 performance.

In case you want to keep Windows 10. Effective with larger projects!

I have found out that the newer your Windows 10 version is, the worse the performance of the C2 editor becomes.

That means if you have the Fall Creators Update, the worse you're off.

Also aside from that, there are also other factors in losing performance especially for pre-built computers or laptops.

Windows 10 Update incompatibility

If you are using a laptop, you should check this link :

https://answers.microsoft.com/en-us/win ... 923?auth=1

According to Microsoft, some computers (ehemm.. Mostly!) aren't compatible with new major updates like the Fall Creators Update, Creators Update and Anniversary Update.

Microsoft knows that most computers are incompatible and they are aware that they are forcing incompatible devices into upgrading even after downgrading.

And even if your computer is in the list, there is still a high probability your manufacturer missed something and your compatibility is substandard. Mostly it's because of Windows 10 overriding your manufacturer drivers and custom settings with new Windows 10 upgrades.

Hence, poor C2 performance. I tried it!

Once you're upgraded, you can still downgrade. Although, your manufacturer's backup is surely deformed.

So a recovery format is not an option, it will still result in poor C2 editor performance.

Fortunately, I have a backup of all my laptop's recovery partition in different external HDDs and FlashDrive.

So if you have one secured, then your efforts haven't been for nothing.

So the solutions are:

Solution 1: For laptops/Pre-built (Windows 10) with Manufacturer Recovery Backup

If you bought a laptop from 2017, chances you have is the Windows 10 : Anniversary Update or earlier.

Backup your files and preferences and format your laptop to your manufacturer Windows 10 version.

Manufacturer drivers will be restored and do block all future updates.

I don't like to do those things too since there are some benefits too but it's the best way since Microsoft

sees ordinary W10 versions are for regular users and use them as beta testers for their broken updates.

To benefit the business sectors which makes sense.

Solution 2 & 3 continue here!

For Home versions only, if you have a Wifi as your main connection, set it as a "metered connection".

Thus, preventing forced updates. Although, you will still be reminded daily. AFAIK.

And you can also "defer updates" but unlike Windows 10 Pro, there's no guarantee.

For Pro+ versions only, if you have a Wifi as your main connection, set it as a "metered connection".

Thus, preventing forced updates. Although, you will still be reminded daily. AFAIK.

You can also tweak some Group Policies and such which you should check at the link above or below.

And unlike Home versions, you can defer updates with more guarantee.

For all versions, Microsoft has made an official update blocker for incompatible devices with their updates.

It does find and can block other updates but I can't find the Windows Fall Creators Update to block it.

Even when the upgrade keeps popping up once everyday, so I just ignored it and set my Wifi as a "metered connection" so it

won't force me and only ask me to download it.

But in case if it works our for you guys, here is the link :

https://www.groovypost.com/howto/block- ... pdate-why/

Solution 2: For laptops/Pre-built (Windows 10) without Manufacturer Recovery Backup

I suggest a clean install on your computer. Download the Anniversary Update [I have tested] and download your

manufacturer drivers and etc. from your manufacturer website.

Then continue above...

Solution 3: For Non-Laptop Computers / Non-Prebuilt (Windows 10)

You have it easy, just do what you normally do. Clean Install and download drivers and etc.. from your hardware manufacturer

websites. Although as much as possible download the compatible Windows 10 version of your drivers.

Or to be safe, download the Anniversary Update version or older.

Then continue above...

I always suggest the Anniversary Update of Windows 10 because that is what I'm using and tested thoroughly.

Mainly because my Laptop's manufacturer version is the Anniversary Update. So you can go for older versions if you want and it

can probably even be better. Just not newer versions like the Creators Update.

Again, this is not a fix but just a workaround to lessen delays that nearly matches Windows 8.1 performance.

In case you want to keep Windows 10. Effective with larger projects!

— - amazing capx! It took 2 min 30 secs for the c2 editor to open it and then, once it was running (with 1.67 Gb of memory used..!) it was totally unusable - sluggish or broken dialogues (not responding) etc.

Just out of interest I dragged the capx into c3 - it took about 1 min to digest it. All appeared ok (190 Mb memory used) and at least the layout editor showed me the sprites that were not displayed on c2. However it crashed when I clicked to view an event sheet... Stuck on Loading....

Mmmm.

i5-3320M 2.60GHz, 1g Gb RAM, SSD drives.

Hahahah thanks. Try it on an old/inferior PC with Windows 7, Windows 8 or Windows 8.1 . You'll get amazing performance.

At best, less than a second delay. Almost instant.

First I would like to thank — for your persistence in making and maintaining this bug report. And also the others for testing and providing us with their data.

And also, thank you Ashley for giving time to check this out.

Attach a Capx

____ Upload a Capx to this post ____

https://1drv.ms/u/s!AjcW2ueud6qp9XKToYjiVhFlwk9n

The .capx is 96.5MB but it could have been atleast 10MB if I didn't add some few big sprites. Just in case it helps imitate a real project.

Description of Capx

The .capx contains :

+1000+- objects

+1 Event Sheet

+32 Layouts

+20,000 instances of global instances. (UID)

The project file will show how slow the dialog popup, loading time of objects and event making in Construct 2.

Base on my previous tests. I tested this problem with the previous versions of C2 by converting my base project in order to make sure this is not an update problem. Those previous versions were R215, R228, R229 and R250. I actually could go on but I already found out my answer.

The problem occurs and should occur in all versions of C2.

It is a C2 design flaw that was not a problem for mainly 2 reasons:

1)Windows 10 requires new methods of optimization since as you said Ashley "Windows 10 has greater performance overhead or something".

Windows 7, 8 and 8.1 are without a doubt faster but inferior in features.

2)Previous projects didn't use a lot of objects or atleast not near to meet the limit to reach the 5 seconds delay.

Windows 8.1 runs this project with lots of objects quite fast but I also noticed delays after reaching 500 objects especially 1000 objects but

nowhere slow as Windows 10.

So the problem is actually there just requires more push in older OS versions.

I actually have noticed this problem back on R229 and made a bug report because the dialog popup takes 1.5 seconds and I suspected that it was the update but afterwards reporting it I noticed that it was actually not but my project got bigger and had more objects and it got slower in dialog popup. But I eventually just endured it.

Now Just a few months ago I bought a new laptop and noticed C2 got slower from 1.5 ~ 2.0 seconds to about 3 seconds. But I was not using the

event sheet frequently. I was editing layouts, adding objects and using spriter for months so I ignored it.

Now I'm back to the event sheet and noticed after importing more sprites. It takes 5 to 10 seconds!

This is to confirm that object count really does affects C2 editor performance.

Steps to Reproduce Bug

Cache Unique Icons (Best Performance)

• Set C2 to Cache Unique Icons.
• Open .Capx
• Open EventSheet1
• Add Event (Yeah it's slow, that's how why create events now. A big pain!)

No Unique Icons (Least Memory)

• Set C2 to Don't show Unique Icons.
• Open .Capx
• Open EventSheet1
• Add Event (Yeah it's faster but still slow, that's another way we create events. A big pain too!)
• You can also remove the variables, layouts and events easily just in case you want to make sure they are not causing the performance problem.

Observed Result

Slow Response Time. Here is an estimate reaction time:

Windows 10 : (High Specs) (Dedicated GPU)

Cache Icons : Crash or 10 to 20 seconds.

No Unique Icons : 5 to 10 seconds

Windows 8.1 : (Low Specs - 4GB Shared Memory) (FanLess CPU)

Cache Icons : 3 seconds.

No Unique Icons : 1 to 2 seconds.

Expected Result

Instant dialog popup especially those with good computer specifications.

Operating System and Service Pack

Windows 10

Construct 2 Version ID

R215, R228, R229 and R250

— - Have you joined the C2/C3 discord server yet? It's better there to communicate since we can share info faster and the others can help us out too.

Here is the link. Meet us there.

Ashley if we may ask, what specs and OS are you using to reproduce the problem?

1 second with 1000 variables is not bad enough to seem to need fixing. I don't see it taking any amount of time as bad as anyone else reports, especially not 10sec+, so basically this is "can't reproduce".

There may well be other cases, but what I am trying to tell you is I don't have any way to reproduce those either. I need steps to reproduce and example projects, for each potential slow case. I don't have any right now. All I've got is one edge case with variables that doesn't look particularly bad.

I'll make you one! I'll make a super bloated .capx even if it costs me hours.

Just prioritize this please Ashley . I've been tweaking OS settings and registry for days now.

FYI C2 lazy-creates icons, so the first time you open a dialog it goes and creates thumbnails of the objects in the project. Lazy-creating is important to avoid reaching the 10000 graphics object limit in Windows - it avoids creating icons for things that aren't used or looked at. This would be difficult to change, since if we create icons in advance, it will in some cases unnecessarily use more of the Windows limit. (In C3 we spritesheet icons so, fingers crossed, this should never be a problem ever again in C3.) Anyway, it explains why the first open is sometimes slower, but in a long session only the subsequent opens really matter, so that's what I'd prefer to focus on.

It's strange Windows 8.1 with C2 and objects load instantly but in Windows 10 it loads 5 seconds at best.

"C2 lazy-creates icons" is not the problem. That works fine.

The problem is different, it does not load fast. Even with High PC Specs.

Please be patient. This issue is only about a week old and was filed over the holidays when everyone was out of office.

I took a look at Slow.capx. It seemed OK to me. I have a high-end machine, but I ran a debug build with optimisations disabled which usually more than cancels out the fact it's a high-end machine; despite that it still opened quickly enough (I'd say ~1 second). After a few quick checks I realised the project has around 1000 global variables and most of the work opening the dialog seems to be filling the dropdown list with 1000 entries.

So all this report proves so far is "editing actions using event variables is slow if you have 1000+ variables", which is a really specific situation. It sounds like there's some confusion in this thread over what the problem really is. It seems there may be different cases which are also slow, but unless there is a separate report for those, complete with example projects and reproduction steps such as in this case, I don't have anything to work with. So please try to narrow down each individual case; it seems unlikely that everyone here has a project with 1000 global variables and are repeatedly editing actions with variable parameters.

FYI C2 lazy-creates icons, so the first time you open a dialog it goes and creates thumbnails of the objects in the project. Lazy-creating is important to avoid reaching the 10000 graphics object limit in Windows - it avoids creating icons for things that aren't used or looked at. This would be difficult to change, since if we create icons in advance, it will in some cases unnecessarily use more of the Windows limit. (In C3 we spritesheet icons so, fingers crossed, this should never be a problem ever again in C3.) Anyway, it explains why the first open is sometimes slower, but in a long session only the subsequent opens really matter, so that's what I'd prefer to focus on.

My project contains:

<,> or = ?5?0?0? 1000 objects in the project. Not exceeding ?1?0?0?0? 1200.

1000+ animation folders. (1000 objects)

300 to 500 layouts.

300 to 500 event sheets. + 20 eventsheets.

Less than 30 families. (Stopped using families after encountering problems with loading them in the dialog, which we all confirmed and reported)

19000 to 20,000 UID instances on entire 500 layouts.

Contains Spriter SCMLs and XMLs

I only have around 200 variables. And I have not experienced any slowdowns.

But I don't know in the future.

Although I know that Layouts and Event sheets don't cause any slowdown.

I'm not sure about variables but I know that Groups, Events and Comments also don't cause any slowdown cause I

have a lot of those.

The things that I've proven to cause slowdown are the:

+Families

and especially

+Objects in the object type folder.

Anything that pops up in the dialog, even around only 50 objects already causes a second pop-up delay.

This happens when trying to load an object when adding. editing and replacing events/objects when the dialog is about to pop-up.

Ashley - My Windows 8.1 with no dedicated GPU, the dialogs run instantly. It was flawless. The problem must have something to do with devices only made for Windows 10.

Btw. I have tried to convert my project to C2 R228, C2 R249 and C2 215 (I think, I forgot). I could go lower but I already got my answer.

I have found out that whatever version you are in, the results are the same.

It seems that C2 is not entirely at fault. It's just C2's editor is outdated with the time and not optimized for Windows 10. Things related to Windows 10 might have changed that made C2 incompatible. Although I don't know what.

I bought this laptop just a few months ago. By that time, I did not update my project's event sheet but I noticed slow performance with the editor every time I import an object but I persisted the image import delays since I, up until now have a deadline and I thought I can manage. Besides, I have been busy more with Spriter animations at that time. But now I'm making events and my project has 2x more objects and the delays make C2 unusable.

To test my theory that this has been happening since or even before July 2017, I made a factory reset and turned off my internet connection to avoid any windows update. My Laptop's model design and factory software was released on July 2017, so I can use it as a base.

So after the factory reset, I installed C2 immediately to find out if there is still a lag. And it's still there.

Btw. I ran Windows 8.1 inside my computer with a Virtual Machine. And it worked flawlessly.

— - I have edited my comment. Reread again please.

— are you using a laptop with Windows 10? Is it clean installed?

Windows 8.1 is doing good but not Windows 10.

People who commonly have this issue are using a laptop with Windows 10 in it since most Desktop users with Windows 10 aren't affected.

I'm not sure but I assume that it might have to do with manufacturer drivers or OS customized bloatware on laptop devices.

Though, this is just a matter of speculation.

How is it going on your end?