Why do more people expect artists to work for free than coders?
Not sure where you got that from. It must be different than from the communities I come from. Also, the word "coder" can get under some people's skin as well. I guess it's an approach towards the subject that makes it seem like more people expect it. If anything, I've worked for free on many projects. I've even taught people how to program from scratch and taught them how to teach themselves over time. I've done this for years over the internet, through Skype, video conferences, and even in my College programming classes. Not only that, I know a wide variety of marvelous programmers who know multiple languages like myself who would gladly program for someone for free, but would also gladly accept donations for their generous services.
[quote:186uk0bx]Your game doesn't need great graphics yet. Looking at those screenshots, the game is most likely less than 50 events so far.
You're right. What you see there is the product of more work put in to art than programming. Since I had to spend hours making the art even bearable to look at, I didn't have much time to program in any game mechanics. I did the art in hopes that if the game had a good start off that it wouldn't be as hard to find a kind and generous person willing to give a helping hand to a person who would do the same any day. It doesn't seem like people take too kindly to that kind of thought these days as money as gotten to be something greater than joy. But, that doesn't matter. What matters is that my theory did not work. Putting in small bits of artistic work does not attract, even slightly, any willing participants.
[quote:186uk0bx]Why do you need an artist so soon? ...
Because. Procrastinating makes things harder in the long run. When you let work pile up, you end up with what becomes more work than what it would have been if you had done it in the first place. I'm not saying I don't procrastinate either. Because I do it all the time still. Heck, I wait until the last day to complete Final Projects for my professors. So, yes, I still procrastinate. However, I don't embrace it. If I embrace it, I simply move on to the next level of procrastination... Not caring at all. Which results in no work being done ever and the project being dropped as a whole.
[quote:186uk0bx]...Why can't you put the effort in to produce something that tempts artists like myself? Sure, you might not be able to afford a decent artist, but art isn't everything in the beginning. Gameplay is. And gameplay doesn't need fancy graphics. If a game is fun, then it can be fun no matter what the art looks like.
So, you're saying that I spend the next week programming the game and I fully complete all dialog functionality, quests, combat, skills, levels, etc... that you would willingly, freely, and without complaints, complete every last one of my requests on the project within a timely manner and (LETTUCE NOT FORGET!) make them in such a way that they fit accordingly to how I program so that I will NOT have to go back to change any of the scripting formulas that align the UI elements according to the user's screen size? I really mean it, because going back is the most boring thing to ever do when it could have been avoided long ago. And, in the event that you couldn't complete the art, or refuse to complete the art, that would pretty much solidify the whole reason why I am looking for an artist beforehand and why it is beneficial. Because I would have done all that work, wasted all that time, and also become disappointed (since I am a person who always has high expectations of everything) when I could have been working on something that completely did not require the needs of an artist in the meantime. That is, like I am doing right now. Yes, I've been live streaming game development of a game that uses 3D cubes, IRC chat to talk, and is hosted through the client. Highly efficient, doesn't cost anything (like how everyone always things you need $10,000 to start a damn game) and a lot of people are eager to see it completed. Sadly, that's not my biggest interest. I've done plenty of simple things like that. A game that features nice art is something I'd be more proud to see done... But, I don't see that happening since I don't have money to keep everyone happy. Since apparently it takes money to make money is the mindset everyone is in.
[quote:186uk0bx]The ironic thing is, you want an artist to prove how serious THEY are, yet, from what I can see, you haven't exactly proven how serious YOU are.
The fact that I put effort in to my post already shows how serious I am. I could have gone in to more depth in the post. However, I try to keep it simple since some people these days like to "TLDR;". As for wanting people to prove how serious they are, no. I don't. In fact, anything you see written relating to judging how serious someone is can just be taken as indirect words.
Let’s take a look at the form…
Skype – Asked because we want a friendly relationship. Not a, “Get back to work *whips* I don’t pay you for nothing,” relationship.
Example Art (min 3) – So we can see what kind of style you are in to. Whether or not you are crude, very unique, or just your typical likeable person. Yes, how you draw can determine these things. Whether or not you and a person would get along. That’s the beauty of art. I draw by hand.
How often will you be available? – Once again. Friendly relationship. Nobody likes a friend who is never there. They’re just not a friend then.
The rest can pretty much be self-explanatory. They’re question to figure out what kind of a person you are and whether or not you’d be very critical about everything or laid back, trusting, and ready to enjoy a good time with some pals as we work.
[quote:186uk0bx]How does anyone know you won't get fed up with this project and quit it. Your word is only worth as much as the work you've put in and I don't see much of that...
Same goes for the pixel artist. Don’t see me complaining. Have faith. As for proof that I won’t get fed up, I’ve completed several projects on my own. I don’t get “fed up” provided YOU don’t get “fed up”. When I get “fed up” is when someone starts bossing me around about every little thing when they should respect boundaries. I don’t ever, EVER, critically control the way a pixel artist shades or produces any art. I draw a mock-up. I give it to the artist. They produce from it what they can and try and match it up with the theme, which is set by the lead artist. And the lead artist can very well be the person who applies for this position. I don’t enjoy pixel art. So, by all means, someone can take the part. But, a secondary artist who can polish the art is more than enough. A helping hand is all I need. I feel as if I learned a lot in the 2 or so weeks it took me to produce the art and variations of the art you see above. If you saw my initial attempts, you would be in awe with how much progress I have gained. Once again, it all depends on the pixel artist whether or not I get fed up. Because I am a man of high expectations. If I am disappointed, it deeply affects me.
The project currently being worked on is not yet planned. Instead, things will be done on a whim until the base story line is set. Meaning there may be minor changes here and there. But, nothing major.
[quote:186uk0bx]Not yet planned?? Minor changes but nothing major?? Now, from that alone, you seem very inexperienced in gamedev.
No, I’m just not some prick who follows the standard rules everyone else follows. I’m self-taught. What you’re saying right now is no different that the dumb crap my English teachers have been telling me for multiple years. “Brainstorm.” Yet, I pull of the highest grade in terms of writing essays and long papers in all of my glasses, without even reviewing the paper, performing it the night before it’s due, and with little knowledge on the topic. Who does that? Follows the instructions of someone else? Are you that set to follow the rules that society has placed on you? You realize that’s just to keep you from even being creative? Wow. It’s called “coming up with your own method of doing things. Herp derp.” Yes, I literally just dropped my standards for even writing to you now. Don’t call me inexperienced in gamedev. I’m sorry to get all pissy with you, but, that’s a low blow. You may not know anything about me, which may have led you to say something like that, but, contain yourself next time.
So, as a pixel artist, you are eligible to receive a portion of the money in the case that what is profited is enough to pay for you as well as all other necessities (multiple servers, other's who are working on this project, etc).
[quote:186uk0bx]So basically, others who work on the project will get paid before the artist? I've either read that wrong or you've really worded it wrong.. :}
It was worded wrong. Percentages of a whole earning will be allocated. Whereas expenses for servers and other things will be prioritized in the allocations. But, that’s not that much since I have multiple VPS servers that I donated towards a programming community along with an application that Toby and I programmed to make it user-friendly. These VPS servers can easily house 30 or more servers for just this one game and they pay for themselves.
[quote:186uk0bx]I admire your honesty that it's not yet planned, but seriously..... and I hate to quote the old cliche but "fail to plan, plan to fail".
Thank you. However, quoting someone’s words when you haven’t fully experienced them has been shown to be utterly… well, you know. Fail to plan, anything can happen. I didn’t plan to program the server application that I talked about a bit earlier. I found a person who was interested, Toby, it didn’t require an artist, so, we did it. We added bits and pieces each day. From May to September we developed. It was already fully functional the second day we started. The reason why it’s until September is because we had no pixel artist to do any other work and text-based projects aren’t fun. So, we took our free time and polished it. This is the point where going back to the code is fun. Not when you’re forced to because you rushed through things. It is now an application where users can request a server, and, if accepted, can then host their game projects on it freely. If they’d like to skip the application then they can easily do so by paying for as low at $5.00. Not only does 20% of that payment go towards the owner of the Game Engine (who is very well not money hungry), it also goes towards funding the servers again for the next month as well. And, as it grows even more, it also goes in to purchasing new servers for housing even more games. So far, there are around 40 games being hosted. A fair number for a small community. And it’s cheap and efficient. Spare cash goes in to donations to charities of my choice and directly to people who have earned the donation. But, the spare cash isn’t all that spare. Its pocket change.
I hope I don’t come across as rude. Yes, there were bits in my post where I did get flustered and showed a tone of disagreement. But, overall I am not angry. I’m just being expressive to show just exactly how serious I am about game development. I’ve been doing it since I was 8. Therefore, it is my life. Not a job. A man who lives only to pay bills and die is not living. He’s torturing himself. I hope this post changes your idea about me and truly shows that I am very much serious.