Everade's Recent Forum Activity

  • Hey there

    I'm looking for a way (basically an algorithm) which is 100% predictable, yet shall free as random as possible.

    Unless you guys have a better way to achieve what i'm looking forward to:

    It's an

    online multiplayer environment.

    Which means it's important that the HOST handles the actual calculation of where and what the players are shooting.

    This means that hit detection all happens on the host side.

    I don't want to sync every single shot with the player, because the delay is way too big, which means it won't feel responsive for the players when shooting. (the other bad part about this is that i have to sync a lot more data)

    I have already a system which sets a specific accuracy depending on your current wielded weapon.

    And as of now, this system works pretty good for a non-online environment by randomly changing the accuracy.

    But what the players are getting displayed is not what's actually happening, so while they might think they've hit an enemy, they might have missed it.

    Here an example with a shotgun with a lot of random projectiles

    (This is a custom projectile system i've created on my own since the bullet behaviour doesn't work for realistic-fast projectiles and fail on the collision part)

    What the Player sees:

    What the Host calculates:

    I want to keep this accuracy system, or at least something similiar. Otherwise it's not going to be fun if every shot hits the exact spot you're aiming for. But i also want to display the bullet direction accordingly to what's actually happening on the host.

    The system calculates random directions and random distance for each projectile.

    My idea now is to have a specific algorithm which will always get the same results, on host and clients without the need to sync the actual bullets all the time. (Basically predictable "randomness")

    Which then runs on each players system and the host. The one on the players side of course will only display the projectiles while the host does the actual hit detection. But the idea is that both, the host and all peers run the same algorithm so they show the same projectile directions while still varying with each shot.

    This might not be 100% reliable since some bits may get lost on the host side (not triggering a shot), so maybe i could sync the current algorithm state every ~30 seconds for each player to correct that.

    How would you handle this? Maybe an entirely different approach?

    And if you think the idea might be somewhat solid, are there any specific algorithms i could use?

    Thanks for reading

  • SnipG

    No that doesn't work within an ONLINE multiplayer environment

    It's actually impossible* using the official solid behaviour.

    *only with ugly workarounds which cause unpredictable/bad bugs

    I will have to use the custom "solid/collision" system from R0J0hound <---- awesome guy

    One of the issues being that if you keep moving against a solid object with Player1 and then Player2 moves through him (below or above)

    It actually affects Player 1 by either pushing him along the line or pushing him entirely through the object because the engine is telling the object to be solid and non-solid at the same time.

    There are also other issues we were fighting with for a very long time.

    But thanks a lot for your input, i appreciate it.

    lennaert

    Take a look at my latest upload, i actually got it to work using the custom solid system by R0J0hound!

    It gives you full freedom to prevent collision with specific objects under certain conditions.

    But the collisions are extremly bumpy sometimes.

    Just one post above yours he answered with another example which i'm willing to test within the next few days.

    I hope that one gets the job done with smooth collisions. The example looks slick.

    Yet this means that i will have to get a custom pathfinding system as well since the solid behaviour is an absolute goner now *Yea suck it SOLID*

    Feels like a revolt since Scirra never implemented it and we still have to wait for the new C3 engine after the release of C3. xD

    oosyrag

    Thanks yet again for the pathfinding example.

    But i have no plans on using tilemaps, i want the players and AI to be able to move with absolute freedom.

    It might take some time but i hope i can get this managed to create a snappy/intelligent enemy AI with smooth movements.

    Thanks everyone for the help!

    You guys are amazing

  • Oh boy, i'm anything else than an expert ^^

    For now i'm just happy that this actualy works.

    But i need to get this polished, since it seems that it's only properly working for circle objects.

    I will have to take a closer look at the link you've given me.

  • oosyrag

    I've just done some first tests using this custom collision system.

    During my tests i kept bugging through the wall, so it does not really seem to be reliable in that particular case.

    I'm also bouncing back and forth a lot.

    And the player sprite also seems to move a little bit further than the actual coliding "Peer" if you keep moving towards an object "without bouncing back"

    On the other hand i doubt that this custom solids is going to work with the pathfinder behaviour either.

    Which means this would lead to an even much more complicated approach since i will have to code my own pathfinding system as well.

    But thank you so much! It works already within a multiplayer environment using multiple floors!

    I hope there are ways to further improve this custom solid system since the collision detection is not really as smooth as in the example.

    Maybe because that one was made for circles ?

    I'm not sure if this code is able to support all different kinds of shapes.

    Here's the latest example capx:

    (link removed)

  • Thank you very much for the detailed analysis of my issue.

    I took a closer look at the example given by R0J0hound

    It looks much simpler than i thought.

    This basically means that i would have to create this system for each of my players, enemies and anything else that can move and collide.

  • Those are just details i'm currently not bothering about.

    The problem is collisions within an online multiplayer environment when using multiple floors.

    <-------------

    PlayerA on floor 1 should not collide with objects from floor 0.

    PlayerB on floor 0 should not collide with objects from floor 1.

    ------------->

  • I've created an example capx for those ****** interested into taking a closer look at it.

    It uses the following plugins:

    rex_zSorter

    rex_layer

    In this particular case the enable and disable solid is even entirely broken and i can not explain why.

    I worked on older Construct 2 versions from what i can remember.

    Replacing the "Set solid Enabled / Disabled" (inside the Common Mechanics/ Solid Picking part) works just fine.

    So i was able to simply move the objects instead for example.

    Maybe it's just a smaller mistake i've created while testing all the time.

    By walking over the red box you are being considered to be standing on floor 0 (ground)

    By walking over the green box you are being considered to be standing on floor 1

  • SnipG

    Thanks for the tip, i've watched the video but i've no idea how that's supposed to help me.

    I'm not a coder, that's why i'm here using Construct. ^^

    So i won't be able to code my own push out behaviour.

    The only thing i'm aware of is Rex's PushOut behaviour but that one relies on the official solid behaviour as well, which is the main issue here.

    As long as solids are being globally handled i'm kinda lost.

    If i would be able to code i would have created my own custom solid behaviour a long time ago (or something similiar).

    lennaert

    Were you ever able to get this to work?

    From what i can remember your last version of the tank game used push out as soon as you've overlapped a non-solid object while at the same time activating the solid to prevent the player to walk through.

    As long as the player was constantly touching the solid, other players were also coliding.

    Somehow you got a workaround for that but there was a bug that as soon as the 2 players touched each other, the player who's supposed to be pushed back fell through.

    Nethertheless there were always some kind of bugs which you also weren't able to fix.

    Or were you actually able to get it to work in the end?

  • >

    > (...)

    > Please finally consider the fact that multiplayer is a must have for every game creator.

    > (...)

    >

    No

    With "creator" i mean game creating software such as construct and not a dev.

    So yes it is.

    There are people who want to create more than just iphone single-player games using construct 2/3.

    And even those can become much more enjoyable by adding an online multiplayer layer on top.

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  • Yea you can not avoid that.

    It's impossible to avoid that, that's why it's important to implement the time-rewind system.

    Here's a rought explanation of the issue you're experiencing:

    https://youtu.be/xyCQtUFOJmA?t=210

    There's also a video where the actual developers from infinity award talk about lag compensation and how they "fixed" it to feel snappy.

    It's pretty interesting because they had an issue exactly connected to what oosyrag said:

    Minute 13 he's talking about the time-rewind

    http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1023220/Fi ... on-Call-of

    It's your ultimate goal that the HOST, calculates at which exact spot the KILLER and the KILLED were standing at the time of the shot happening.

    So the host should basically calculate the positions back in time, trying to re-create the positions to check if the shot actualy hit something.

    And to make the game feel fluent for the players, you create the movement prediction.

    So the player actually moves visualy before he's actualy really moving (on the host).

    Same goes for shooting and so on.

    Ashley

    Although i have to admit that the official multiplayer plugin from scirra comes with precision issues when it comes to movement.

    Of course, it has to do some corrections in case your position is not in sync.

    But it happens all the time!

    So you're always being moved a little back and forth as a client, because it's always resyncing your actual position with the one given from the host (talking about 8-way direction movement here).

    Basically it's a very annoying micro-rubber banding.

    And this already happens while testing locally (host and client on the same machine)!

  • True, sorry — I only meant Towerfall as an example of a 2D game possible in Construct, and then multiplayer added to that.

    I've just not found any examples of the multiplayer, platform, and bullet behaviour working together properly, and have had no luck (despite my efforts) creating one.

    If it's possible, I'd love to see an example. In fact, I wonder if Scirra-grade examples of the many uses of multiplayer would spur interest in the plugin again (a multiplayer R-Type; a multiplayer Mario; a board game; a chat app; etc).

    (EDIT: or if it's not possible, I think it'd be a good idea to put that in the manual, to prevent others from the same fate)

    I think Construct 3 fixed the precision issue already (I'm not 100% sure)

    https://www.scirra.com/blog/203/some-bo ... onstruct-3

    Read the Enhanced acceleration precision part

    And which issue exactly are you talking about ?

    Do you mean that bullets fly through players and did not hit them?

    Construct 3 also enhanced the bullet behaviour to fix exactly that.

    I personally created my own bullet system which works very well within multiplayer environments.

    Instead of moving a small particle, i'm shooting a line which stretches over time.

    My goal was to create realistic bullet speeds, so the lines stretch extremly fast!

    I've even extended the system with penetration, depending on the bullet type being fired.

    So you can easily adjust it for each bullet that it penetrates multiple enemies before it gets destroyed.

    But i guess this should now be possible with Construct 3 new bullet behaviour which according to the blog does not fly through objects anymore because it moved faster than the frames have been updated.

    Please note that you will require lag compensation (rewinding time) if you try to create a real-time shooter or something similiar.

    https://www.scirra.com/tutorials/892/mu ... pts/page-8

    Ashley covered that already in his tutorial.

    And there's a pretty good real-time multiplayer template in the store:

    https://www.scirra.com/store/royalty-fr ... plate-2846

    It's not perfect and some things are a little bit complicated.

    It also has some precision issues when jumping. Which should be fixed in Construct 3 (read above)

    But it's great if you really want to get into it.

    But you can achieve exactly that by reading through ashley's multiplayer tutorials.

  • Ashley

    Thanks for the reply.

    No i don't want it to be removed, but waiting for an update which is never going to happen is really not fun.

    Let me quote you from just a few weeks ago:

    There's a number of other aspects like the Scirra Arcade, multiplayer signalling, the hosting of C3 itself, other services we haven't announced yet, and other services we'd like to add in future.

    So i expected to see multiplayer improvements in Construct 3.

    But now since the beta release there's nothing about that "promise".

    And with your post above saying that there are no plans to improve it any further is just a huge let down yet again.

    And yes, multiplayer isn't easy.

    Your tutorial is also pretty good.

    It helped me to get multiplayer properly working with the prediction and anything else that's important about online multiplayer environments.

    Although there's still a lot more that could be covered. But i can work with it even though i'm an absolute Construct 2 beginner.

    I'm just saying that since that release back then, multiplayer has just been left back in the void.

    If at least you could improve the solid behaviour (which could also be useful for non-multiplayer scenarios) that would already be a huge relief.

    Yet the biggest request (which i understand is a lot of work) would be support for dedicated server hosting.

    I'm not really expecting that to ever happen, even though it would be freaking amazing.

    But i would already be more than just happy with the solid behaviour update.

    Curious, it works fine and has full functionality as dedicated host, regards if you're running it in nw.js or a browser tab, so wondering what the problem is there. Is not like clients ever see what the host sees, depending on how you approach it.

    Also, what is the benefit of running for own signalling server? Honest question, I really don't see it.

    The main question I guess would be what exactly you want to see improved and how?

    The solids issue you mention is hardly unique to multiplayer projects, and there are logical workarounds. Also it will likely be addressed in a C3 runtime update, which is planned for the future.

    Full dedicated host functionality?

    Do you mean if i let the game itself run on a windows server or what?

    That's a really non-performant ugly workaround. I think Ashley even said that himself from what i can remember in a private message.

    Benefit of running an own signalling server is:

    I have full control over availability and geographical location (about 1 year ago the scirra signalling server was down for several days and i've offered my signalling server to others (and yes it has been used by several people))

    And the solid issue i've mentioned has no logical workaround.

    I've been testing tons of different things but everything was an ugly workaround which ended up with specific bugs which are impossible to be fixed.

    Maybe someone could write a plugin for that, no idea since i'm not a coder (that's why i'm here using Construct in the first place).

    And "likely" be adressed is a huge word.

    Ashley

    I would love to hear some feedback from Ashley on this particular case.

Everade's avatar

Everade

Member since 24 Jun, 2014

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